White storks in the British Isles in the distant past (1 Viewer)

[Fratercula]

I have a query, "historical" in nature: am hoping that posting it here, will be acceptable. Given rise to, by an item found by chance on the Internet -- a matter concerning the species White Stork (Ciconia ciconia). I had hitherto understood -- though could not say for certain how or where I first came by this impression -- that the British Isles had always been on the very edge of the White Stork's summer-visiting and breeding range; that few pairs had ever summered in the British Isles, and that effectively the species became extinct in our islands, many centuries back: their last instance of breeding therein (until very recent deliberate introduction moves) having been in the unlikely location of the roof of St. Giles's Cathedral in Edinburgh in 1416.

I have recently encountered a suggestion -- by an organised group claiming involvement in nature conservation (i.e. not a single random eccentric posting random stuff on the Net) -- that, very many centuries ago (the Edinburgh 1416 event having indeed been the last known instance in these islands), the White Stork had in fact summered and bred in the British Isles in fair numbers; but that during the centuries leading up to the 15th, the species had been under great pressure from habitat destruction; hunting as food; and persecution by the superstitious (!?) -- thus ceasing, from the early 15th century, to be a regular British bird species. This scenario strikes me as, in part anyway, improbable -- would have envisaged man's impact on the natural world in the ways suggested here: as being, in medieval times, fairly small. Am wondering, though, whether said scenario might be at least in part, correct; and whether what I had thought to be the case, as above, might in fact be wrong. I would be grateful for any information from people with knowledge of these matters.

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

It’s possible that in the very distant past White Stork was a breeder here, I don’t recall ever hearing of fossil evidence though.
The Edinburgh record is not considered acceptable by some authorities. Given the date it’s unlikely that any further unequivocal evidence will be forthcoming.
As they are long distance migrants it is perhaps surprising that they were not at least occasional breeders, though they are a regular overshooter to these shores. I doubt whether persecution would have been a problem as they are generally thought of quite favourably in Europe.

 

[Mono]

My goto source for any social history of birds in the UK is the excellent Birds Britain Britannica by Mark Coker and Richard Mabey. Regarding the White Stork they are clear that the only known breeding attempt was the 1416 event and that White Storks have only ever been irregular visitors. In later years visiting birds were often shot as curiosities rather than organised persecution.

 

[Mono]

The documentation produced to support the introduction at Knepp has lots of information that support the White Stork as UK species. But whether they can be regarded as disinterested is for you to judge.

 

[Farnboro John]

The documentation produced to support the introduction at Knepp has lots of information that support the White Stork as UK species. But whether they can be regarded as disinterested is for you to judge.

I'd say rather that it has a lot of information, which can be interpreted how you like - which renders it untenable as a case for British stork breeding. The expeditionary nature of the English during the entire post-Norman period means that figures such as Geoffrey Chaucer had accompanied the King's armies into France and would have been quite sufficiently acquainted with storks to include them in poetry.

There are two illustrations of storks eating frogs, separated by about forty years, the latter of which has quite clearly been plagiarised from the earlier work. (This is a common problem with modern referencing as well, as tracing the various references in particularly medical science papers reveals that what purport to be separate supporting pieces of evidence in fact all track back to one original source). Indeed, the derivation of the second illustration from the first merely raises the additional possibility that the first was itself not an original work (plagiarised from a work now lost or to be found somewhere abroad) or of course it may have resulted from knowledge gained on the Continent.

Another illustration on which the paper comments that it is in error as the wings are represented as all dark, actually also shows a dark neck and head so that one must suspect it is actually an accurate representation of a Black Stork - again, either copied from a foreign work or rendered as a result of Continental travels: unless of course it was a consequence of vagrancy by Black Stork, which still occurs today - in any of the aforegoing, it is not evidence of ancient British stork breeding!

One should not put too much faith in place-names without knowing exactly what was in the mind of the namer. Storrington's name may be corrupted from stork place in Old English but if it is, that may reflect the first settler choosing his place due to the omen of a vagrant stork in a likely looking spot not already occupied, rather than the adornment of every Saxon cot with a stork nest.

Every bit of recent breeding evidence involves captive, escaped or rehabilitated birds which cannot be taken to support the proposal.

In short, a group of people with their intentions already decided conducted a session of decision-based evidence-making and here we are inundated with plastic storks and unable to easily identify future vagrants, which is a bit of a shame.

John

 

[Fratercula]

Thanks, all. (@Mono: afraid I was unable to download the attachment.) It would seem from responses, that I was basically correct in my original assumption, viz. British Isles essentially never white-stork summering-and-breeding territory. The suggestions which I found to the contrary, come from an outfit called "The Cameron Bespolka Trust -- connecting young people with nature". The element therein which really piqued my attention, was the "persecution by the superstitious" element mentioned in my original post -- claiming that the stork was seen as a Christian symbol (something to this, it seems: the stork is approvingly mentioned in the book of Isaiah as an exemplar of kindness and devoted care of one's young); and that in medieval times, non-Christians -- by implication, old-style pagans -- persecuted storks because of their hatred of Christianity. The immediate reaction from anyone who knows anything about history would be, I reckon, that this is -- for obvious reasons -- nonsense; but I had a moment of wondering, "what I'd thought to be the case, I vaguely picked up from somewhere -- not via diligent and purposeful study -- could it possibly be that on this I'm wrong; and these people's version -- weird though it superficially seems -- is right?"

 

[jurek]

There was no ornithologists or bird surveys in the 15. century. You are making a common error of thinking that historical sources resemble modern science, and not understanding they are extremely brief and unscientific. It is already much that an evidence of a wild bird is a place-name and a brief mention in a different context. Stork in not among few birds which were of interest to medieval people (poultry, falconry birds and few symbolic birds). So it must have been widespread in order that few mentions passed to the written word. Many common birds in Britain are actually not known from any past evidence.

Certainly, hunting of wildlife in in 16. century was already intense. For example last documented breeding of Common Cranes in England is 1542.

PS. Field guides at less than 100 years old, too. If somebody few centuries ago saw a vagrant stork, he would not know what it is. And would not know the name stork.

 

[Mysticete]

For once I would agree with Jurek. I don't think you can take lack of medieval accounts as evidence they weren't there. It seems perfectly plausible to me that storks could have had a decent-sized population in the south, given their distribution in Europe. Medieval Brits did a pretty thorough job of wiping out most of the large animals on island, and folks weren't terribly picky back then about what ended up in the pot.

 

[Fratercula]

@jurek and @Mysticete -- thanks: food for thought... maybe I should not be too hasty in "buying" the standard view on this matter (one feels that the Bible is perhaps on to something, with "he that increaseth knowledge, increaseth sorrow" ). Though I feel that @Farnboro John maybe has a point -- surprisingly many Brits got to the Continent of Europe back then -- maybe got acquainted with storks there: they are conspicuous and striking, and generally found lovable, birds?

At all events, I have to feel that the Cameron Bespolka Trust's notion re people going after storks because of the "anti-Christian" thing, must be rubbish: the medieval Church had matters of religious belief tightly locked-down and enforced, and was merciless toward any of its "should-be" flock who came to its notice as defying its authority.

 

[Farnboro John]

There was no ornithologists or bird surveys in the 15. century. You are making a common error of thinking that historical sources resemble modern science, and not understanding they are extremely brief and unscientific. It is already much that an evidence of a wild bird is a place-name and a brief mention in a different context. Stork in not among few birds which were of interest to medieval people (poultry, falconry birds and few symbolic birds). So it must have been widespread in order that few mentions passed to the written word. Many common birds in Britain are actually not known from any past evidence.

Certainly, hunting of wildlife in in 16. century was already intense. For example last documented breeding of Common Cranes in England is 1542.

PS. Field guides at less than 100 years old, too. If somebody few centuries ago saw a vagrant stork, he would not know what it is. And would not know the name stork.

Doesn't matter as there is not suggestion in the work that they did name it. It's just a picture of a bird. attributing to the evidence qualities that it lacks.

The accuracy of the rendering implies familiarity with the bird but does not make any suggestion as to how it was gained.

Cheers

John

 

[David_]

Interesting discussion. Just a few thoughts on this:

I can‘t see why habitat loss should have been an issue. Everywhere else in Europe White storks found a way to at least co-exist (maybe even thrive due to easier feeding and nesting opportunities) with human agricultural expansion (at least until the agricultural industrilization). Why should this been a problem in Britain?

As much as I agree with Jurek on historical sources in general I am not sure ist applies here. If there ever was a significant breeding population which has been wiped out by hunting my feeling is there would be more sources. Why do I think this? Hunting is (besides war) probably the best documented human acitivity in history. And because of the bragging which seems to be ascociated with hunting since the beginning of mankind I can‘t believe there wouldn‘t exist at least one painting of some nobleman displaying a dead Stork.

So in general I don‘t think there was a significant breeding population for at least the last 2000 years

 

[jurek]

Boasting and trophy hunting of the kind you refer is more 18.-19. century and large mammals. Birds appear so rarely and briefly in human interest, that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. This thread reminds me of centuries-old Little Egrets in Britain and Bald Ibis in Central Europe, which were similarly disbelieved, considered to be other birds etc.

By the way, does anybody know an actual paper about lore and taboos associated with White Storks? Stork, uniquely among large birds of Europe, is protected by beliefs that it brings luck, brings babies, destroying its nest causes misfortune, its flesh is distasteful or poisonous or causes madness etc. This is interesting from the point of ornithology, conservation and etnography, and that such a common 'meme' is not documented. We all know such sayings, but I could find surprisingly little about how old is such lore, how it appeared, in which countries it existed, was it strong enough to protect storks from killing etc.

 

[David_]

Boasting and trophy hunting of the kind you refer is more 18.-19. century and large mammals. Birds appear so rarely and briefly in human interest, that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. This thread reminds me of centuries-old Little Egrets in Britain and Bald Ibis in Central Europe, which were similarly disbelieved, considered to be other birds etc.

You are probably right.
I just have the feeling from my limited exposure to medival paintings or even older ones there are four dominating themes religion, war, food and hunting. And I remember seeing paintings and drawings of hunters with their prey laying on the ground with all kind of animals including various birds. And if even I saw a couple of those paintings there should be more and than I think ist would be likely that at least one remaining painting would show a bird as large as stork.
But of course my memory could trick me and the percentage of hunting related paintings is much smaller than I think or those paintings were not as old as I remember them to be. Or those paintings only show prey which was killed for food and storks were not eaten.

 

[Hauksen]

Hi Jurek,

By the way, does anybody know an actual paper about lore and taboos associated with White Storks? Stork, uniquely among large birds of Europe, is protected by beliefs that it brings luck, brings babies, destroying its nest causes misfortune, its flesh is distasteful or poisonous or causes madness etc. This is interesting from the point of ornithology, conservation and etnography, and that such a common 'meme' is not documented. We all know such sayings, but I could find surprisingly little about how old is such lore, how it appeared, in which countries it existed, was it strong enough to protect storks from killing etc.

Sounds like a worthwhile topic for research, indeed.

I wouldn't discount the long-term effect human pressure might potentially have had on stork populations even in sparsely populated medieval Britain, but as the White Stork seems to be a welcome and admired bird in continental Europe, it's difficult to imagine it could have been seen in a different light in Britain, causing that kind of pressure.

While the human influence factors described are not entirely comparable, here's a (German) article on the fauna of the Wadden Sea, which according to the article in medieval times included pelicans, and in ancient times, flamingos too: Neues Leben in der Schlickwüste

Regards,

Henning

 

[Jos Stratford]

Boasting and trophy hunting of the kind you refer is more 18.-19. century and large mammals. Birds appear so rarely and briefly in human interest, that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Not entirely sure of that - art through the ages has figured references to birds and bird hunting, way earlier than the 18th century.

Okay, not the UK, but just think of Egyptian hieroglyphs, plenty of bird hunting scenes there. Also fascinating account of bird art in southern Europe from 5th Century BC here: bustards, spoonbills, coots, etc, identifiable

 

[Fratercula]

By the way, does anybody know an actual paper about lore and taboos associated with White Storks? Stork, uniquely among large birds of Europe, is protected by beliefs that it brings luck, brings babies, destroying its nest causes misfortune, its flesh is distasteful or poisonous or causes madness etc. This is interesting from the point of ornithology, conservation and etnography, and that such a common 'meme' is not documented. We all know such sayings, but I could find surprisingly little about how old is such lore, how it appeared, in which countries it existed, was it strong enough to protect storks from killing etc.

Possibly of some interest, re the above -- found via Googling (apologies here: I am unfortunately a highly computer-clueless computer-owner, very incompetent at doing links) -- will attempt a link, but doubt that it will work -- will need to set out awkward ""pointers".

Totalny „Przekrój” na lato! - Kwartalnik Przekrój>culture>Article

Google "white stork traditions of protection". On "page 3" delivered by this, approximately ten "hits" down: item headed "The Pious Bird: Storks in Myth and Memory in Lithuania". Seemingly (in English !) by a Lithuanian writer, resident in that country: quite lengthy, includes various natural-history, and human-lore, material on the topic -- myth of storks bringing babies; their representing the human soul in ancient Egypt; approved of in Christian tradition for familial affection and practical caring (the older for the young, and vice versa); symbol for early Christians, of chaste marriage; in pagan times in Lithuania, the new year was calculated from time of storks' arrival in spring: the behaviour of the first stork seen, was taken as an omen for the new year.

(Lithuania is reckoned to have nowadays, one of Europe's biggest summer white stork populations, and the Lithuanians certainly like their storks; the same applies to their Polish neighbours.)

While the human influence factors described are not entirely comparable, here's a (German) article on the fauna of the Wadden Sea, which according to the article in medieval times included pelicans, and in ancient times, flamingos too: Neues Leben in der Schlickwüste

(My bolding)-- good heavens ! I'd always -- ignorantly, it would seem -- imagined pelicans as having forever belonged, as regards Europe, strictly in the south-east of the continent.

 

[THE_FERN]

Possibly of some interest, re the above -- found via Googling (apologies here: I am unfortunately a highly computer-clueless computer-owner, very incompetent at doing links) -- will attempt a link, but doubt that it will work -- will need to set out awkward ""pointers".

Totalny „Przekrój” na lato! - Kwartalnik Przekrój>culture>Article

Google "white stork traditions of protection". On "page 3" delivered by this, approximately ten "hits" down: item headed "The Pious Bird: Storks in Myth and Memory in Lithuania". Seemingly (in English !) by a Lithuanian writer, resident in that country: quite lengthy, includes various natural-history, and human-lore, material on the topic -- myth of storks bringing babies; their representing the human soul in ancient Egypt; approved of in Christian tradition for familial affection and practical caring (the older for the young, and vice versa); symbol for early Christians, of chaste marriage; in pagan times in Lithuania, the new year was calculated from time of storks' arrival in spring: the behaviour of the first stork seen, was taken as an omen for the new year.

(Lithuania is reckoned to have nowadays, one of Europe's biggest summer white stork populations, and the Lithuanians certainly like their storks; the same applies to their Polish neighbours.)



(My bolding)-- good heavens ! I'd always -- ignorantly, it would seem -- imagined pelicans as having forever belonged, as regards Europe, strictly in the south-east of the continent.

Dalmatian pelican was a UK native until quite recently; somewhere between about 1,000 BC and 100 AD I think

Given this and the presence of cranes, I'm somewhat surprised the evidence for storks isn't stronger.

 

[Ben Meijer]

Hi everyone,

This is an awesome thread.
I know a bit about white (and black) storks, regarding their occurrence in the Netherlands. I recently read a book Een Vreemde Eend In De Bijt, Frans Buissink | 9789056902445 | Boeken | bol.com
About the history of all kinds of strange vagrants, but it also talks about white stork and black stork history.
White storks in the Netherlands were considered to be desirable by farmers (since the middle ages) because they ate all sorts of vermin, like rats and mice. Farmers have been trying to encourage them to breed by making wheels on poles for centuries. And it worked.
But, then pollution due to the industrial age killed quite a few of them, we poisoned our rivers, aquafers, etc, and they almost died out. (of course all the salmon in the rivers died)
the book also explained that we completely killed the large white heron due to several centuries of wanting their feathers, and the little grebe was hunted because they could be fashioned into a handbag for women.
The large white heron came back on their own though naturally from the rest of eruope and us losing interest in white feathers and handbags made from little grebes.
And in 1969 reintroduction programmes for storks were set up. They were quite successful, so much so, that i (born in 1970) never even knew these bird had had such a hard time in the past.

apparently, there is another big influence. In the middle ages grain was grown, but some was spilled, and some left on the field, but since 1960 something, we became so effective, there was so much less left for mice, and the common sparrow, resulting in a decline of both, and their predators!

 

[John Cantelo]

My go-to reference for historical information about British Birds is "The History of British Birds" by Yalden & Albarella. The appendix therein lists ten archaeological records of White Stork starting from Wolstonian period (352,000 - 130,000 years ago) with subsequent individual isolated records dotted through the Bronze Age, Iron Age, Roman times (one from Silchester), Saxon period (one from London), and a single one from the Middle Ages (plus a trio of storks unidentified to species level.) In contrast, the same source lists Cranes from 135 sites all documented in a table sprawling over three and a half pages with 30+ from the Roman period and 20+ from the Middle Ages. Naturally, the archaeological record is imperfect and rarely if ever distinguishes between birds present only in summer and those, like Crane, where numbers may have been significantly higher during winter. Even so, the authors of the book are surely right in suggesting it was already a rare bird long ago (something which they also conclude from its absence from banquets and accounts of hawking). The other possible explanation for this absence - that the bird was absent from such records because it was revered and respected as it is on the Continent - conflicts with the idea that they were lost through persecution. The close link with human habitation and the respect in which White Storks are held across a huge swathe of Europe tends to suggest that this is an ancient belief and surely one shared by the Anglo-Saxons. Hence I find it hard to believe that they could ever have been widespread or frequent breeding birds (if at all) in the post-Roman period and quite possibly before that time.

 

[Mono]

I have only seen the idea that white storks were persecuted by "pagans" as symbol of Christianity in one article, and then it is presented without references. There was only a short period in British history when "pagan" and Christian communities existed at the same time and that was way before most of the historical references to storks that are discussed in the various pro and con stork arguments.