Yorkshire Birding (109 Viewers)

[arthur heaton]

To change the subject-I've been out watching aircraft for the last couple of days at Linton on Ouse-the hedges are are bouncing with Blue and Great Tits Chaffy's and the usual suspects.Pair of Siskins and a Reed Bunting yesterday, and a big mixed flock of Rooks and Jackdaws seem to appreciate the RAF's grassland!Buzzard and Kestrel all day today, and the highlight was a pair of Skylarks singing their heads off fighting for territory:and the pair of piebald crows hatched last year have survived the winter-unfortunately:they're camera shy!

 

[Ingsbirder]

Still on the Runswick Bay bird, given the time of year, location etc, how about a Shorelark?

Given that it was in the car park at Runswick Bay then this solution seems unlikely? There are 2 car parks, neither of which abound with Shorelark habbo.

Having said that, from a Yorks perspective, Shorelark seems far more likely than Cirl Bunting

 

[DOC REED]

Check out this haul of eggs... This is what these people do...

This is an interesting blog I follow. Would be interesting if there was a Yorks version of this so maybe people in the local area would be quieter with their shouting out about Annex 1/ Schedule 1 species during the breeding season. Would also be good to publish mugshots of the faces of those known eggers etc so that we can all keep an eye out for them.

EDIT: this evening there has been an update in the above case: see here. The egg-collector in question has recieved an asbo preventing him travelling to scotland for the next 10 years...

Andy

All the evidence says the 'law' is useless.And i've seen nothing from your post that convinces me otherwise.I am a gp, i've just had patients that have received jail sentences for badger baiting , and so on. I live in the real world, getting birders around birds is THE only way to protect them. The law ,in a famous qoute is an ass!

Please respect local birders who use this site before posting comments;I don't think this is the place for ideolical points of view.I am working with Redhouse estate to provide nest boxes and more public access etc.

Eggers will be eggers,if I find one one on my patch,I'll be unresponsible for my actions.

I just feel a bit hunted down at moment from comments posted on here,those that know me know I love my local patch,love birds;but I am happy to share them with others,I give respect and benefit of doubt until proven otherwise.

Lets be sensible about this,please suggest a code of conduct to apply re reporting rare birds/birds of prey/owls/ sensitive breeding birds etc.Make it clear please what your thoughts are;what pics should be published on here?Waxwings in a sainsbury car park in Sheffield?No shots of owls at all??

Please state your exact thoughts, because if your statement is met by agreement ,by all or most on here,I won't post images again.As to whether others follow ,its up to them.

I am totally confused now, but I think this site isn't what it was when I joined;it used to be fun, a place to talk about birds in Yorkshire,share local experiences etc, show pictures.Now through people like yourself/Ollie etc, seems the actual birders are being persecuted.Its just how I feel;sorry if that upsets you.

No doubt this is a rant!As a gp i'm used to complaints, and I take my time, do a draft reply,have it vetted, ammend it, then send it.No opportunity on here to do that, so my words are instinctive,from the heart.

Paul xx

 

[melodious]

Andy

All the evidence says the 'law' is useless.And i've seen nothing from your post that convinces me otherwise.I am a gp, i've just had patients that have received jail sentences for badger baiting , and so on. I live in the real world, getting birders around birds is THE only way to protect them. The law ,in a famous qoute is an ass!

Please respect local birders who use this site before posting comments;I don't think this is the place for ideolical points of view.I am working with Redhouse estate to provide nest boxes and more public access etc.

Eggers will be eggers,if I find one one on my patch,I'll be unresponsible for my actions.

I just feel a bit hunted down at moment from comments posted on here,those that know me know I love my local patch,love birds;but I am happy to share them with others,I give respect and benefit of doubt until proven otherwise.

Lets be sensible about this,please suggest a code of conduct to apply re reporting rare birds/birds of prey/owls/ sensitive breeding birds etc.Make it clear please what your thoughts are;what pics should be published on here?Waxwings in a sainsbury car park in Sheffield?No shots of owls at all??

Please state your exact thoughts, because if your statement is met by agreement ,by all or most on here,I won't post images again.As to whether others follow ,its up to them.

I am totally confused now, but I think this site isn't what it was when I joined;it used to be fun, a place to talk about birds in Yorkshire,share local experiences etc, show pictures.Now through people like yourself/Ollie etc, seems the actual birders are being persecuted.Its just how I feel;sorry if that upsets you.

No doubt this is a rant!As a gp i'm used to complaints, and I take my time, do a draft reply,have it vetted, ammend it, then send it.No opportunity on here to do that, so my words are instinctive,from the heart.

Paul xx

I don't think anyone is being picked on here. And i don't think referring to yourself as the 'the actual birders' is helpful either. I've been birding for over 30 years and work in the field full time. This does not make me any more an 'actual' birder then anyone else. I don't know it all and neither do you. But i am prepared to challenge opinions and actions that i think are wrong. This is not an ideological point but a practical one; i don't want to see endangered and sensitive species harmed either by accident or design.

Firstly i think you are wrong about the law. What evidence are you presenting that the law is useless? The RSPB's opinion is that the imposition of custodial sentences has significantly reduced egg collecting. We wouldn't have any Great-crested Grebes without bird protection laws. Hopefully a vicarious responsibility law (please everyone sign the petition) will similarly reduce the amount of raptor persecution on shooting estates.

Secondly i think you are wrong about the notion that birders being around is necessarily going to protect birds. Recent breeding attempts by Hen Harriers have seen the male birds killed over-night by 'lamping' gamekeepers. So if a site has been revealed would you consider organising the round the clock wardening that is then required? Many game-keepers in the region are quite adept at finding birds of prey but why make life easy for them? The same goes for egg collectors.

Thirdly I agree that sharing knowledge about local birds is an essential thing to do, the more people know about there local environment the more likely it is to be protected. However i don't think that this should be a principal that over-rides everything else (which of course would make it an ideological point). All i would ask is that if birders really care about the birds they watch and photograph then they should educate themselves about local bird protection problems and be prepared to listen to those with experience in the field. There is already an excellent Birdwatchers Code but i agree that opening up a debate about the specifics would be a good thing. Problems will obviously vary from area to area, and i'm certainly not knowledgeable about your patch. Based on my local knowledge i would suggest a few initial things i think are worth considering;

Never talk publicly about birds of prey on or near shooting estates. Avoid visiting them unless you are actively engaging in raptor protection work. Particularly concerning are Goshawk, Hen Harrier, and Peregine near grouse moors. This applies year round. If you are near a site consider carefully what you say to people that you meet. I personally have had notorious local gamekeepers and there relatives trying to solicit information through a 'chance' friendly chat. They will also check web-sites and patrol areas neighbouring their estates. And no i don't think all grouse moor keepers are criminals. But most certainly are. We used to be more open about raptors locally but then most of them got killed (e.g. Derwentdale down from 8 pairs of Goshawk to one)


Don't approach or attempt to photograph the nests of any Schedule One species. There are obvious exceptions such as an Avocet or Osprey nests visible from a hide on a bird reserve.

Many species can be regarded as sensitive whether specially protected or not, and whether breeding or not. In my area i would have serious reservations about revealing the locations of Barn, Long-eared and Short-eared Owl, Nightjar, Black Grouse, Quail, Merlin, Red Kite, Hobby, and Firecrest. There may well be many situations where news can be revealed (such as wintering Firecrests away from breeding sites) but i would really think the potential problems through first. So be aware of what your local problems are and act accordingly

I hope you do not take this in anyway as a personal attack, it is not meant to be. But i feel strongly about this problem, applaud anyone who raises the issue, and feel obliged to do so myself

 

[Q@Spurn]

So Derwentdale still has a pair of Goshawk eh? Don't think you should be posting that on a public forum, you never know who reads it...

 

[Q@Spurn]

Posh double-barrel surnamed estate owner, Rupert Grouse-keeper sat down to afternoon tea and looked out over fine, leafy Derwentdale.
"I say, Derwentdale sure is looking fine and leafy today and not a a raptor in sight. These small sandwiches with their crusts cut off are super jolly good show."
The new fangled personal computer that Rupert's daughter, Veronica had installed in the corner of the drawing room whirred continually as background noise sounding almost almost like a fan attempting to cool the motherboard of a personal computer.
"Blast your eyes! What is this I read? Here in fine leafy Derwentdale there is still a pair of blasted Goshawk at large? Does Melodious not know I'm responsible for the loss of seven pairs of these flying killers already?"
Tiny crumbs of Battenburg were strewn across the lace tablecloth as Rupert's tirade drew to a close.
"I'm not finished there. Surely if Melodious is aware of the persecution in this area then he/she should recognise the added risk of making the public aware that they haven't got all of them yet? Maud, load the rifle, bring my optical aids and lace all five of Veronica's hamsters with rat poison. To hell with these small sandwiches and lovely selection of tiny bitesize cakes! We have work to do and it's all because of that darned public forum."



Melodious, I mock.
Smiley probably required methinks.

 

[melodious]

So Derwentdale still has a pair of Goshawk eh? Don't think you should be posting that on a public forum, you never know who reads it...

This is published information from the RSPB/ Peak nest watch. Try googling it, it is in the public domain already and the local keepers are well aware. Additionally most years this site is wardened, a camara is put up at the nest, and images shown to the public in a visitors centre. That's why i feel free to mention it.

 

[melodious]

Here's the link, it's from the RSPB's website. I'm hardly letting that particular cat out of the bag

http://www.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/projects/details/212582-peak-nestwatch

 

[metcow333]

Hey

All slightly through the looking glass here, I thought it was pretty well accepted not to publish whereabouts of rare breeding birds in the breeding season,is there not a BF sticky somewhere advising on it?

Doc, I don't understand why you are considering not posting photos, it seems a problem that can be easily overcome by labelling them as 'undisclosed site' or similar during the breeding season (or if taken at a site the birds are likely to be breeding in at a different time of year), as many people do on birdforum/birdguides. Many people enjoy your photos, and it would be a shame to unnecessarily lose them from BF.

This isn't a personal attack, or in praise of suppression. I am currently doing a shift for one of the bird news services, so it would be the height of hypocrisy for me to advocate general suppression. However, I wouldn't dream of putting out news of schedule 1 breeding species whilst breeding, unless in a wardened environment, (in fact, i feel quite uncomfortable putting out news of any breeding bird on a public/national forum), and most of our competitors feel the same way.

I hope this helps you understand my position, it is one that I have found to be broadly agreed with by most of the experienced birders i have met.

Ollie
P.S. "actual birders"?

 

[melodious]

Further useful reading from the Peaks;www.rspb.org.uk/Images/PeakMalpractice_tcm9-132666.pdf

 

[melodious]

Further stuff from the Peaks;

http://www.britishbirds.co.uk/news-...ct-gamekeeper-convicted-of-raptor-persecution

http://www.rspb.org.uk/news/303514-...s-appeal-for-attempting-to-kill-birds-of-prey

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...gamekeeper_accused_of_killing_rare_birds.html

Please also consider signing this petition (which also mentions the Derwentdale Goshawks)

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/23089

 

[northernloon]

On a lighter note. Finally got around to experimenting with feeders. Thought it might be a non-starter on the first floor but several Blue Tits have discovered my fat balls. Well chuffed.

Maybe it's a change in the weather but the regular Coal Tits and Goldfinch have not appeared. No takers for the niger yet. Ho hum

 

[Neil Birdy]

Posh double-barrel surnamed estate owner, Rupert Grouse-keeper sat down to afternoon tea and looked out over fine, leafy Derwentdale.
"I say, Derwentdale sure is looking fine and leafy today and not a a raptor in sight. These small sandwiches with their crusts cut off are super jolly good show."
The new fangled personal computer that Rupert's daughter, Veronica had installed in the corner of the drawing room whirred continually as background noise sounding almost almost like a fan attempting to cool the motherboard of a personal computer.
"Blast your eyes! What is this I read? Here in fine leafy Derwentdale there is still a pair of blasted Goshawk at large? Does Melodious not know I'm responsible for the loss of seven pairs of these flying killers already?"
Tiny crumbs of Battenburg were strewn across the lace tablecloth as Rupert's tirade drew to a close.
"I'm not finished there. Surely if Melodious is aware of the persecution in this area then he/she should recognise the added risk of making the public aware that they haven't got all of them yet? Maud, load the rifle, bring my optical aids and lace all five of Veronica's hamsters with rat poison. To hell with these small sandwiches and lovely selection of tiny bitesize cakes! We have work to do and it's all because of that darned public forum."



Melodious, I mock.
Smiley probably required methinks.

:t:
You've just got to love how the internet throws up people like Mr Melodious & Metcow333 o o
Now where's that off button :smoke:

 

[melodious]

:t:
You've just got to love how the internet throws up people like Mr Melodious & Metcow333 o o
Now where's that off button :smoke:

Yes, how stupid of me too try and raise the issue of bird protection. And your considered response was exactly what?

 

[zing]

curlew

Flock of between 35 and 50 curlew this afternoon!!!

is this the norm i have never seen so many curlew in one place,input appreciated.

 

[Ingsbirder]

Flock of between 35 and 50 curlew this afternoon!!!

is this the norm i have never seen so many curlew in one place,input appreciated.

Hi Zing, I'm guessing you saw the birds in the LDV?

In that case then the answer is yes. At this time of year large numbers of Curlew pass through the LDV with numbers building up through February, usually peaking in March - several hundred in most years though sometimes higher (eg over 600 on 12th March 1995).

 

[zing]

Hi Zing, I'm guessing you saw the birds in the LDV?

In that case then the answer is yes. At this time of year large numbers of Curlew pass through the LDV with numbers building up through February, usually peaking in March - several hundred in most years though sometimes higher (eg over 600 on 12th March 1995).

600+!!! makes my 35-50 look a bit sad! many thanks for the input. :t:

 

[manorblade]

I'm with doc reed on this one,to me the more pairs of eyes watching a bird ,the more chance of protecting that bird.also i'm always a bit concerned about the once all my "gang" know about and have seen the bird then we better keep it hush hush because obviously we know best,well i'm not in such a gang so does this mean my only chance of ever seeing breeding goshawks,SEO etc is if i happen to stumble across them.how many people who know of such breeding sites happened to stumble on them as oppossed to being told about them,not many i'm sure.lastly the people who know of such sites do they take the secret to their grave and if not who do they pass it on to and how do they know they can be trusted.The problem with gamekeepers never seems to get any better,back in the late 70's me and my pals had many a set to with game keepers around the "stone circle" area of moors near me and it seems nothings changed and they still get away with it,but trying to keep a site secret on their land which they know backwards is almost impossible,they patrol it every day and soon pick up on any raptors present.
i don't know the answer to gamekeepers/egg collecters but i don't think stopping birdwatchers from seeing them is the answer( i do know one solution but would get locked up for doing it)
yours manorblade (nigel)

 

[Ingsbirder]

600+!!! makes my 35-50 look a bit sad! many thanks for the input. :t:

No probs, the record count in the LDV is a flock of 872 birds on 16th December 1996:eek!:

 

[Q@Spurn]

I was just being pedantic towards the (accidental) hypocrisy, Melodious.

Oh I love cooking apples.