You guys complain about the 25% of Sweedish tax?
In Brazil you have to pay 60% of taxes based on declared value. This is our "small" tax.
government, government.... how much is your "big" tax?
What! I know this is a ZR party and love fest but have you ever heard of a bin called Nikon SE? You can have a SE 8x32 for the same price as a ZR 8x32 and I'm pretty sure they give competition.....So while maybe not true alpha quality there certainly is nothing else that gives these much competition.
You can have a SE 8x32 for the same price as a ZR 8x32 and I'm pretty sure they give competition.....
They make an 8x32 ZR ED?
;-)
Sorry, I could not resist.
The SEs are a wonderful binocular and among the best optically on the planet. The simple fact that they are not waterproof deters alot of folks. If image quality alone were the sole factor in choosing a binocular then the SEs would be at the top of the list for price versus performance.
...but the Zen ED 2 would not be far behind.
How much water landed on the objectives, eyepieces and optical tubes? Did you focus while water was falling on the binocular?Yea, you got me :smoke: I just got a little flustered with the statement:-C 7x36 ZR ED2
And I would like to believe that most of us here will see a lot more excellence in a bin like the SE and will find ways to use them even in adverse conditions because they are worth it. By the way, I've had my 10x SE's in the rain so much now that I consider the non water proof argument bunk! They have NEVER had any water penetrate and still look as new as the day I bought them. Just try not to drop them in the swimming pool as your looking at the bikini clad guests :-O
Frank,Actually John, Kevin P. bought a second 8x32 SE and a second 10x42 SE to utilize over the winter in Oregon in a bit of a "torture test" to see how much abuse (handling and weather) they will hold up to. I look forward to seeing what he posts next spring.
CL,
As John referenced in another thread "perception is often reality" for many folks. Even if the SEs never get water inside of them the perception that folks hold of them because they are not advertised as "waterproof" will often be one that is "less than perfect".
Sad but true.
The only thing that is "sadder" in my opinion is the fact that Nikon never took the initiative to waterproof them and give them modern eyecups. John and I have discussed this several times and the only conclusion that seems to make sense to me is that waterproofing them would somehow affect the mechanical performance.
How much water landed on the objectives, eyepieces and optical tubes? Did you focus while water was falling on the binocular?
John
PS
I'm waiting for the defintive SE shower test to show up on YouTube. I'm pretty sure it will be a long wait!
On the other hand, if you placed the Zen Ray ED 2 8x43 side by side with the Monarch X 8.5x43 I think you would find some simple "truths".
One, the build quality is similar, as I would expect it to be considering they both sell at the same price point.
Two, the optics aren't even close...in any category. Brightness, apparent sharpness, vividness of colors, field of view...you name it. They all favor the Zen ED 2....and I did not even mention CA control which I personally feel the 8x43 ED 2 excels at.
Now you did reference the 7x36 ED 2 specifically. With that comment I would concur. It still needs some tweaking to get it to the optical level of the 8x43 model. CA isn't quite as well controlled, there is more field curvature and the eye relief needs to be another 2 mm longer. Still, after having said all that, it is still the nicest 7x36 currently on the market from an optical performance perspective.
For $400 I still think it is certainly worth the price.
My first thought after reading your last comments CL is....where can you find used Alphas in the $400-$500 range?
I do alot of "bargain binocular shopping" and know all of the usual outlets to get Zeiss/Leica/Swaro/Nikon "alphas" at the best prices. I have never seen any of them go in that price range. (Not being argumentative but rather just curious)
As for the ZR and the Nikon Monarch X, ofcourse, I can understand your stance on buying one over the other. Nikon has been around for decades and Zen Ray has only been around for the last 4 or 5 years (to my knowledge). Having confidence in your equipment because of the long term reputation of a company makes alot of sense.
On the other hand, if you placed the Zen Ray ED 2 8x43 side by side with the Monarch X 8.5x43 I think you would find some simple "truths".
One, the build quality is similar, as I would expect it to be considering they both sell at the same price point.
Two, the optics aren't even close...in any category. Brightness, apparent sharpness, vividness of colors, field of view...you name it. They all favor the Zen ED 2....and I did not even mention CA control which I personally feel the 8x43 ED 2 excels at.
Now you did reference the 7x36 ED 2 specifically. With that comment I would concur. It still needs some tweeking to get it to the optical level of the 8x43 model. CA isn't quite as well controlled, there is more field curvature and the eye relief needs to be another 2 mm longer. Still, after having said all that, it is still the nicest 7x36 currently on the market from an optical performance perspective.
For $400 I still think it is certainly worth the price.
As you said "to each their own" and as I said "I would buy new I wouldn't buy used"....... 8x30 SLC just sold on ebay for $440 auction #250487024660, a 7x42 Habicht sold for $475 auction #230372893578 and a brand new set of 8x30 SLC's just sold on ebay for $765.... That is three pair of Swarovski, two for under $500 and one new pair for just over the mark. Their were many more that sold in the $500 to $600 range.... Now I ask you, would you own a ZR over a Swarovski?
Yes the SLC is not the most ergonomic bin but is still very usable and I think a lot of people would disagree with you optical evaluation of it.....Actually, it's a no brainer. The 8 x 30 SLC requires a front of the hinge focus by pinky love for an OK but not special by modern standards image, and the 7 x 42 is a narrow field ultra sharp museum piece. I continue to be amazed by my 7 x 36 Zen (and yes, it shows flare occasionally). This is migratory season for South Texas and the Zen has been an absolute godsend.
Well the question was whether the ZR 7x36 ED2 was the best buy in the $400 to $500 range and I flatly say no! I'm not talking EL's and their 2k price tag (although they can be had for half that on the used market) I'm saying that the 8x30 SLC is a better buy and I'm sticking with that.... You can have the ZR and I'll take the little Swarovski with swarotop, swarodur, and swarobright....Ahh, point taken. It does seem as if a few sneek through at some very respective prices.
Would I choose the Zen ED over a Swarovski....
...sorry, I have this big smile on my face right now...
...but I did in a way.
So, if the question is, would I choose a Swarovski over the Zen ED 2 then my answer would be, no, I wouldn't. I would be in more of the crowd that would be happier buying 4 Zen ED 2s for the price of one Swaro EL. Even if Zen Ray wouldn't be around 10 or 15 years from now I would be willing to bet that I would still have a Zen ED or two in my possession and would still be happy as the proverbial pig in snot.