Looking for a scope (1 Viewer)

I just discovered this forum because I am looking for a scope (my first).

I'm looking for a 60mm scope in the $450-$600 price range. I'm looking for a 60mm scope because light weight is fairly important to me but not so important that I'm willing to go to 50mm. It's really kinda hard to find info on scopes in this price range. Most reviews focus on the higher end scopes and throw in a Spacemaster and maybe a Sky & Earth to cover the lower end but leave out this 'mid range' completely.

Has anyone used a Fujinon Super 60 or Kowa TSN-601? Can anyone suggest other scopes in this price range? Will these scopes deliver noticeably better performance than a Spacemaster? I don't have anything against Spacemasters - I've used them in the past - but I am hoping I can get something a little better for what I intend to spend. Finally, can anyone suggest a retailer in the Minneapolis area where I can try them out? The only decent one I know of is National Camera and they don't have the Super 60 or the TSN-601.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm talking about $450-$600 for the scope and eyepiece. I figure I'll go with a 20-60X or 20-40X eyepiece but could be persuaded to go with a fixed (nonzoom) eyepiece.

Hello Jupe, I am sure someone will officially welcome you soon on this forum. Meanwhile greetings from Switzerland.

Have you tried the search feature for your models? There are so many threads that there is a fair chance that your question has already been discussed. As for local stores, that is obviously a point you'll hardly find on the search mode. But why not try it.

Hi Jupe and welcome from the Moderators and Admin staff of Bird Forum.
Your initial query would be better answered by fellow American Members,as prices are a lot different between USA and Europe.I'm sure you'll get some useful info before long.

Thanks. Yes, I have tried searching the forums so far without much success.

Hi Jupe,

Welcome.
Check on Adorama. They have good deals on Kowa and Nikon. There's a package thta includes a tripod for $399:
Nikon Spotter XL 16-47x60 Zoom Water Proof Spotting Scope Outfit with compact Slik tripod and deluxe carrying case #6901

The Kowa 60mm ED goes for $499, but with the eyepiece, you'll be around $700

Hope it helps!

Jupe said:

I just discovered this forum because I am looking for a scope (my first).

I'm looking for a 60mm scope in the $450-$600 price range. I'm looking for a 60mm scope because light weight is fairly important to me but not so important that I'm willing to go to 50mm. It's really kinda hard to find info on scopes in this price range. Most reviews focus on the higher end scopes and throw in a Spacemaster and maybe a Sky & Earth to cover the lower end but leave out this 'mid range' completely.

Has anyone used a Fujinon Super 60 or Kowa TSN-601? Can anyone suggest other scopes in this price range? Will these scopes deliver noticeably better performance than a Spacemaster? I don't have anything against Spacemasters - I've used them in the past - but I am hoping I can get something a little better for what I intend to spend. Finally, can anyone suggest a retailer in the Minneapolis area where I can try them out? The only decent one I know of is National Camera and they don't have the Super 60 or the TSN-601.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm talking about $450-$600 for the scope and eyepiece. I figure I'll go with a 20-60X or 20-40X eyepiece but could be persuaded to go with a fixed (nonzoom) eyepiece.

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There is an Optocron HR 66 (non-ED) IIRC at the Barnes WWT centre in London. This 66mm scope gives nice views of the ducks etc on the reservoir. The image looks contrasty and bright, though there is obvious colour fringing. The scope is behind a large window which must affect the seeing, but it is a good instrument, and is clearly optically better than my (cheaper) Nikon 60mm RAII. I would suggest that you try for a scope with low dispersion glass (FL, APO, ED, HD) if at all possible as it will have slightly improved contrast and much less fringing. The little Kowa 663 and 613 might also be good choices. Hopefully someone with experience of these scopes will give a more informed answer than me.

Leif said:

The little Kowa 663 and 613 might also be good choices. Hopefully someone with experience of these scopes will give a more informed answer than me.

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The 663 & 613 are angled the 664 & 614 are straights.

Tim Allwood is a fan of the 614.

Perhaps the Nikon Fieldscope III 60 mm obj.(non ED version) with the 20x45x zoom. It would be above your price range, however, would get you into a very good scope. At the $600 level including eyepiece you are at the cusp of getting to the next level. The small Kowa non ED version is also a possiblity with a fixed focus eyepiece. The zoom the fits that scope is not as well regarded as the Nikon 20x45 zoom that fits the Fieldscope.

Eagle Optics in the Madison Wisconsin area is well regarded and will let you compare scopes which is important in determining which one is best for you.

Bob

I purchased the Nikon Fieldscope III non-ED along with a 20x60 eyepiece and a tripod from b & h photo (they are out of NY; I live in San Francisco, found it online, and purchased via the telephone). The scope body (w/o eyepiece) was back when and still is $519*. The eyepiece is listed for about $250. The tripod was a hundred. I know this puts you over your limit, and such limits often exist 'cause y'just ain't got no more money. But as someone else pointed out, your 450-600 range kinda puts you on a fence between easily affording any lower-rung scope and barely...not...quite affording the midrange scopes. I went with the Nikon because it has a metal body, is waterproof, and it has an unusually large, kinda nifty focusing ring. I am a careful, selective brand-name ho when spending (lots of, for me) money on thing I won't be able to replace any time soon: I've long believed Nikon makes good cameras, etc. REAL important for me is the fact I couldn't afford multiple eyepieces, so I very much wanted a zoom lense. I'd read that zoom lenses were generally of lower quality than fixed eyepieces, but also I'd read that the Nikon 20x60 zoom was an exception.

When I'd wrung as much information out of sites like this and online shops as I could, nearly making myself crazy in the process, I finally decided on b & h photo because 1) they were very clear about the distinction between gray market and US market products, the 20x60 lense was a little cheaper than other places, and I'd happened upon some online guide that rated camera/optic stores and b & h was rated highly by consumers.

After I bit the bullet and called to place the order, the not-particularly-warm customer service person told me the scope was actually $470-something instead of the across-the-board standard of $519. This reduction was offered without any haggling on my part.

SO. I love the scope. In average birdwatching lighting the zoom is great for the first third of its range; it gets muddy and dark progressively towards 60x. Only in the most exceptional lighting is the high end mag. bearable. I might go with a fixed 30x if I could do it over. The scope seems well made, the 'vue-thru' case is crazy but useful.

Whatever you do, adding a scope to one's birding efforts ROCKS! You will have so much fun! And every non-birder will either think you are a movie producer or a sniper! When you realize your fifth kestrel of the day is not a kestrel at all but actually a merlin, you've arrived.

Cheers.

Thanks for all the replies. Wow this is difficult! Although I'd still love to hear from someone who's tried either of those specific models I mentioned (Fujinon Super 60 and Kowa TSN-601) I'm now leaning towards saving a little more money and going with the Kowa TSN-661 (that's the 66mm, non ED, angled body) and the Nikon Fieldscope III (non ED, angled).

Any thoughts on the relative merits of those 2 scopes?

Also, what about eyepieces? I really think I want a 20-60X zoom or possibly a 20-40/45X. I've heard that the Kowa's zoom is inferior but I may have also heard that they have recently improved it. How do the 20-40/45X eyepieces from Kowa and Nikon compare?

Finally, what do you guys think of buying a used scope on the internet sight unseen?

For a non-ED scope, don't forget to check out Eagle Optics' Raven (current price $369USD). I seem to recall some of the other members here using that scope, and it got excellent reviews from Michael and Diane Porter in their 2003 Scope Survey.

GR

Jupe said:

Finally, what do you guys think of buying a used scope on the internet sight unseen?

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I have sold numerous items sight unseen and they were worth several hundred pounds each. They were advertised on the internet and in UK magazines. I was gob-smacked that someone would trust a complete stranger!

One thing you can do to minimise risk is to try and establish that they are who they claim to be. A personal web site that contains lots of information about a local road safety campaign organised by the seller would make me feel a bit more confident. A photocopy of the receipt, with the date of purchase and the sellers name on, and a digital photo of the item, with your name written on some paper next to the item will help prove that the seller bought and still owns the item, and that it is in the condition stated.

However, I would not buy anything of any real value (>£10) sight unseen from a private seller: I have had quite a few bad experiences involving someone who lied about the condition of an item in order to get me to drive ~30 miles to view it. :-C In my experience the more someone tells you that the item is as new, the more likely it is to have significant signs of use.

I have bought lots of items sight unseen from established shops. I bought some binoculars described as "Unused" only to discover that they had obvious signs of use. I returned them but had to pay a total of £14 for post and packing. (I could have taken them to the small claims court to get my money back but what a hassle!) There are several shops from which I am happy to buy cameras and lenses sight unseen - and have done so - as I know that their descriptions are accurate. Most shops are trustworthy. One or two shops are decidedly dishonest.

I suspect many people will disgree with me but then again I'm a suspicious miserable old curmudgeon. 8-P

Jupe said:

Also, what about eyepieces? I really think I want a 20-60X zoom or possibly a 20-40/45X. I've heard that the Kowa's zoom is inferior but I may have also heard that they have recently improved it. How do the 20-40/45X eyepieces from Kowa and Nikon compare?

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Hi Jupe,

I have a straight Nikon ED III and I was not really satisfied with it until I replaced the zoom eyepiece. So, in case you decide to go for the Nikon (non-ED should be fine up to 40x, which is what you mostly use anyway) just make sure you get the better zoom. That 20-45x is so much inferior to the 20-60x. It is not that you actually need to go beyond 45x, but the 20-60x has much better coating and obviously also otherwise improved optics. I tend to prefer zooms, in spite of their narrower FOV. I can also recommend B&H, they sent it to Switzerland with no problems (except having to pay more postage, of course). The VAT here, comes extra, as well. But you don't have those problems anyway.

Well I changed my mind again! I managed to find a local retailer who carries the new Kowa 600 series scopes. He had a tsn-602 which is the straight version in stock so I went and had a look.

Now I'm far from an optics expert and it's been quite a few years since I've looked through any scope but I was very impressed. I wanted to like this scope because of the size, the weight, and most of all, the price but I was afraid I would not be satisfied with the view. I was very pleasantly surprised - I liked it even more than I hoped to. I have no illusions of it performing as well as a Zeiss, Leica, or Swarovsky or probably even a Nikon Feildscope III but I'm satisfied with the view and it fits nicely in my price range. Here is the scope I'm talking about.

Then I found a fantastic deal online. $487 for the scope and the 20-60X zoom (it's usually around $660) with free shipping from camcor.com. I had never heard of them but I did a little research and they seem to be a very reputable retailer with a brick and mortar store in Burlington, NC. I checked and the zoom eyepiece is Kowa's current model and it comes with a US warranty.

I'll let you guys know how I like it after I've put it through its paces at the Minnesota NWR this Spring.

Thanks for all the replies.

Hi Jupe!

This is my first post at this forum.

I am too looking for a scope at around 500$ range and also come to conclusion that there is not much choice. I was too looking at Fujinon and Kowa 60 mm scopes. Fujinon however doesn't focus very close. 7.5m is too much I think. Kowa focuses down to 6m.
I think it is too late for you as you already probably use your Kowa scope, but I found best prices at http://nationalsportscenter.safeshopper.com/48/cat48.htm?654

You can have Kowa TSN-601 + 27WA eyepiece there for 450$

I was wondering if you had a chance to compare your TSN-601 with TSN-661?

For sure let us know how you feel about your new purchase.

Best

Fero, Wildlife and Nature Photography, www.wnp.sk

Funny you should ask. The Kowa (tsn-601) finally came yesterday. I noticed that camcor now has that scope & eyepiece combination priced at $620 - I wonder if the $487 I got it for was a mistake.

Unfortunately the weather was crappy here yesterday (but at least it was warm) so I wasn't able to try it out too much. But my initial impressions are favorable.

I'm really not knowledgeable enough to give a serious review but it provides a bright clear image. I'm sure it would suffer next to the high end scopes but I'm also quite sure it performs noticeably better than a friend's Sky & Earth. There may be some chromatic aberration (I think that's what you call it) - the grackles I was looking at looked a little too blue. But that could also have been the lighting conditions.

Regarding the zoom lens: There is a little too much eye relief at 20X and not enough at 60X. That may be a feature of most zooms, I don't know. It's quite usable throughout the range but provides the best image and the most comfortable viewing between around 25X and 40X. I might prefer the fixed 27X or 30X eyepieces but it's really too early to tell.

Overall I'm very happy with it so far. I'll post again after I've had a chance to use it a little more.

Well, I've had a chance to use the Kowa a little more and I thought I'd post again for the benefit of others who may be considering this scope.

I went to the Minnesota River Valley NWR with my wife a couple of weeks ago. We saw some really cool ducks two of which were new for me (all new for her). At least a couple of them I probably would not have id'd if not for the scope - it's nice to have.

Anyway, the scope performed beautifully. I saw no sign of the chromatic abberration that I mentioned before - I think I'll chalk that up to unusual lighting conditions. I'm very satisfied with this scope.

Fujinon Super 60 spotting scope

Hi,

I have a Fujinon Super 60. I bought it used and unseen (other than the photos on eBay) and it's a really excellent scope. It's almost mint and was boxed. This is not to say everyone will be so lucky with second hand purchases. Watch out on eBay, there are lots of false ad's for Fujinon Super 80 ED scopes. These are ALL scams and mainly come out of Canada (fact!). I beleive Fujinon offer a scope+eyepiece+case deal on both the Super 60 and Super 80 which saves a lot versus buying separately.

I would NEVER buy anything worth this much from someone I wasn't sure I could trust. The seller of my scope had feedback of about 300 and 100% +ve. If it had been a new seller, I'd have bid less and collected the scope for cash. I certainly wouldn't buy it through an ad in a paper/magazine/website etc without seeing it.

Back to the scope, I have the 30xW (wide) eyepiece and it's great. Beautiful colours, bright and sharp. I want the 50x too, but can never find one second hand. In the UK they are fearsomely expensive new (£180 - around $330!!!) as opposed to $170 in the USA. I can't understand this myself. The scope is very light and small, but then again I am used to carrying a whole backpack full of camera gear inculding 3.5kg 500mm camera lenses and tripod. In addition to that lot this scope seems like a feather! It's not just good for watching the midges hovering round that partridges head. I had a good look at Saturn through it recently too.

If you search this site for Fujinon, you will find that I have written a fair bit about my scope and what I think of Fujinon's distribution and eyepiece bayonet etc.

Certainly the Fujinon Super 60 is superior to the Opticron HR66 which I compared side-by-side (28x HDF eyepiece)

If you do get the Fujinon with the 40-60x eyepiece let us know how you feel that eyepiece performs.

F.Y.I. I am a keen photographer and so I know my optics. I have many lenses each of which is more expensive than the Fujinon scope. I am impressed with the scope optics although you will get a bit of chromatic aberation on high contrast subjects. I have not used an ED scope and so I cannot comment on their releative performance. I believe that in almost all viewing situations (except a long range backlit bird against the sky), you don't need ED glass and would be far better off spending the extra money on other things. I don't know if using ED glass would eliminate CA on that type of subject anyway.

The Fujinon's a great scope, you won't be disappointed. Case is good too and as I said, the 30xW eyepiece is lovely.

I think I've made it clear that carrying a lot of kit is no both to me so I'm sure you will understand when I say that if I could have got the Super 80 ED second hand I would have done. BUT WATCH OUT FOR SCAMS ON THIS SCOPE. I've seen several whilst searching eBay. They are pretty obvious, but I thought I should warn everyone anyway.

Good luck,

Nick

Hi Nick,
Trying to find an adaptor for the fujinon super 60A, I fell across your comments. I bought my scope reduced through the internet and got a good deal even after paying freight form US to Denmark and customs! Any way I use the 20-60 zoom eyepiece and am very happy with it. I had a chance this spring of comparing several eyepieces (25 WA and 30) with the zoom at Monk Optics and although there seemed to be a slight improvement in resolution on say 30, I did not think it to be good enough to warrant an investment of an extra £ 160. Also I usually can zoom in and get a much better and more detailed look!
Now I have been getting so used to a zoom, I could not imagine using a scope without one.
Already quite a few times I have used a 50 plus magnification to be able to identify a bird. Up to 50 you get a defintely better view, from 50 - 60 the conditions need to be right to get any improvement, usually overclouded sky. I did use a 60 zoom once to positively identify courting Montagus Harriers (not so easy to distinguish from Hen Harriers) across a large river at a distance of
at least 500 m. Lovely sight.
I do not know how the eyepiece would fare compared to the top zooms, but the scope is very bright. Actually so bright it seems to give some problems when the sun is out in force. I use a UV-filter, mainly to protect the objective, but wonder if another filter might help in bright sunshine. Any suggestions?

Best regards,
Klaas

Hello Jupe!
I have 2 Spotting scopes for sale!
Both are Kenko, both are brand new
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kenko Pro Field Scope 70mm 20-50 Zoom
Model: KNPF70A for $130
check out more specs here:
http://store.yahoo.com/kenkomall/kenprofspots2.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kenko Green Field Scope Weatherproof 80mm 20-50 Zoom
Model: KNGF80 for $200
check out more specs here:
http://store.yahoo.com/kenkomall/kengreenspot1.html

email any questions thanks! :bounce: