Is the best roof in the world better optically than the best porro? (1 Viewer)

[Torview]

:t:

I remember his 8x32 FL phase very well. He ridiculed me for saying I preferred my 7x42 EDG overall to 8x42 FL because I liked the view in the EDG better at night where its field flattener lenses provided pin point stars almost to the edge of the fov. He said birders didn't need field flattener lenses which were nothing more than "gimmicks just like circus mirrors". When Dennis proclaims his latest love the "best" binocular none of us regulars take heed at all, it's just the latest episode "Dennis being Dennis".

As far as the original question asked at the beginning of this thread I would say that most of the objective members on the forum would answer no. The truth is the best roofs in the world aren't better optically than the best porros; however, the alpha roofs are usually better in all the other factors that make a great birding bino.

The alpha roofs are waterproof and the effort needed to focus them varies little under cold weather conditions which are problematic for many porros. The alpha roofs also focus much closer than most porros and I must admit that even though I love my porros I often take a roof just for this reason--bugs, butterflies, and flowers make some interesting subjects when viewed up close at 6x-8x magnification.

The alpha roofs are usually a much better ergonomic fits for most users and the simple fact they offer twist up eyecups makes them much more versatile than the average porro. When traveling by myself I'm perfectly happy with one of my porros but when my wife is accompanying me I always opt for a roof. When one user wears glasses and the other doesn't twist up eyecups are a virtual necessity.

I know this thread has morphed into a "my bino is better than your bino" (or in this particular case "my roof is better than your roof because mine has field flattener lens elements") as Dennis's threads almost alway do but I would like to address the original question asked in the tittle of this thread. When it comes down to the optical performance of the best roofs versus the best porros I would have to answer that no the roofs aren't any better. As I mentioned above the alpha roofs offer many features that may make them a better overall choice but superior optics isn't one of them.

Steve

:t:

 

[Pinewood]

Hello,

Should one want a good 8x50 roof, is there anything other than the Leica available? However, I doubt that it is better, optically, than the Zeiss Jena Octarem or the Doctor Nobilem.
Another comparison, which I cannot make would be between that Austrian 15x glass and the Zeiss 15x60.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :scribe:

 

[Torview]

Arthur, in the UK RSPB badged 8x50HD is available, very bright it is too.

John.

http://www.vikingopticalcentres.co.uk/binoculars/rspb-8x50-hd-binoculars

 

[Pinewood]

Arthur, in the UK RSPB badged 8x50HD is available, very bright it is too.

John.

http://www.vikingopticalcentres.co.uk/binoculars/rspb-8x50-hd-binoculars

Hello John,

Has anyone compared it to the Jena 8x50 or even West German Zeiss 8x50, which lacked multi coating?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:

 

[[email protected]]

I think you should qualify "behind in technology", Zeiss choose not to employ field flatteners, the FL is equal to anything in CA control and better than any 32mm roof in transmission.

It seems like only yesterday you were assuring us all that when Allbinos finally tested the 32mm EDG it would trounce the SV.

Somehow the EDG has lost its lustre for you a second time now, after first losing out to the SE.

After having the SV 8x32 for some time now I just feel it is little better optically and quite a bit better ergonomically then the EDG. The EDG is huge for an 8x32 compared to the SV. I enjoy using the SV more because it fits me better.

 

[[email protected]]

Lee, indeed, I've had the FL for about five years now and for maybe two of those it was the only 32mm I used. And frankly I'm certain I could go back to using it again. Sure I like the SV better, but that doesn't mean I couldn't live without it. It's not that big a deal. What I like for birding and what I need for birding are two different things. I've said this before, if the only bino I had was my Zen 8x43 ED2 I'd be a happy camper. It's plenty good enough to go birding with.

In fact, I sometimes wonder, if I had to do this optics thing over again, if I would even bother playing around with binos. Seems silly sometimes, when you can just go birding instead. :t:

Mark

I don't agree with that. An excellent view which the SV provides increases my enjoyment of birding. Knowing I have the best optics available when I go out in the field give me satisfaction. Why screw around with second best if you can afford the best. I would never waste my time with a Zen Ray again. Life is too short to mess around with them as your main birding binocular. They are alright for a car binocular or a knock around pair that you don't care about but that's about it. That is what I use my Bresser's 8x42 ED's for but just the other day I was using them at Barbour's Pond's looking at Egret's and then I got the Swaro's out and I am thinking what the heck am I wasting my time with these when these Swaro's give such a better view of the bird. You waste your time with that cheap stuff. Get the best avoid the rest. If you can afford Swaro's why use anything else?

 

[[email protected]]

You have to remember that Dennis's go-to, one-and-only alpha [at one point] was the Zeiss 8x32 FL. Waffles more than a Denny's at breakfast........

You should remember that was before the SV came out or at least before I could acquire one at a discounted price. I got mine for $1600.00 for like new which is a bargain for the best.

 

[[email protected]]

Yes, the learning curve is not too steep. I suppose one could say, at least initially, you might continue in mostly moving the binocular instead of your eyes. Then you realize, hey, I can just look around some if I want to. I suppose it may be a little counterintuitive.

And it's not like you can look all the way to the edges or anything--you'll get blackouts just like any bino. But you will find yourself roaming over a pretty big chunk of the view with no need to reposition a sweet spot or experience a blackout. It feels really natural, especially when looking over flocks of shorebirds for instance. Hey, there's a Short-Billed Dowitcher over there!

As for Dennis, I'm beginning to think he enjoys the abuse. It will be interesting to see where he goes next in his neverending ramble through binoculardom. Well, exasperating anyway.

Mark

Good point. It is just hard to go backa when you have become used to a 100% sharp FOV. I think all you Zeiss FL fanatics out there just haven't tried the SV long enough to become hooked on it because you do become hooked on it.

 

[[email protected]]

I remember his 8x32 FL phase very well. He ridiculed me for saying I preferred my 7x42 EDG overall to 8x42 FL because I liked the view in the EDG better at night where its field flattener lenses provided pin point stars almost to the edge of the fov. He said birders didn't need field flattener lenses which were nothing more than "gimmicks just like circus mirrors". When Dennis proclaims his latest love the "best" binocular none of us regulars take heed at all, it's just the latest episode "Dennis being Dennis".

As far as the original question asked at the beginning of this thread I would say that most of the objective members on the forum would answer no. The truth is the best roofs in the world aren't better optically than the best porros; however, the alpha roofs are usually better in all the other factors that make a great birding bino.

The alpha roofs are waterproof and the effort needed to focus them varies little under cold weather conditions which are problematic for many porros. The alpha roofs also focus much closer than most porros and I must admit that even though I love my porros I often take a roof just for this reason--bugs, butterflies, and flowers make some interesting subjects when viewed up close at 6x-8x magnification.

The alpha roofs are usually a much better ergonomic fits for most users and the simple fact they offer twist up eyecups makes them much more versatile than the average porro. When traveling by myself I'm perfectly happy with one of my porros but when my wife is accompanying me I always opt for a roof. When one user wears glasses and the other doesn't twist up eyecups are a virtual necessity.

I know this thread has morphed into a "my bino is better than your bino" (or in this particular case "my roof is better than your roof because mine has field flattener lens elements") as Dennis's threads almost alway do but I would like to address the original question asked in the tittle of this thread. When it comes down to the optical performance of the best roofs versus the best porros I would have to answer that no the roofs aren't any better. As I mentioned above the alpha roofs offer many features that may make them a better overall choice but superior optics isn't one of them.

Steve

"The truth is the best roofs in the world aren't better optically than the best porros."

The big point I am making here is I disagree with that statement. The SV Is better optically than any porro and it is the first roof I can say that about. I compared it to the best porro's and it is simply better. It is better than the SE, the EII or even the Habicht and easier to use than all of them.

 

[Chosun Juan]

..... But I was surprised at how good the EL SV 8x32 is when I tried it at the Bird Fair. As I posted elsewhere, it really is nearly as good as an FL.

Lee

Holy :smoke: Lee - dem's fightin' words! ..... in what has become a 'my roof is better than your roof, nerny-nerny-nah-nah' thread! :scribe:

If the 8x32 T*FL is That good ...... imagine How good the 8x32 HT will be ....... :cat:



Chosun :gh:

 

[ceasar]

Good point. It is just hard to go backa when you have become used to a 100% sharp FOV. I think all you Zeiss FL fanatics out there just haven't tried the SV long enough to become hooked on it because you do become hooked on it.

Here is why you preferred your new Zeiss FL over your Swarovision 2 years ago and why you sold it.

In your own words:

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2246187&postcount=8

Read once again about that zone in the view of the Swarovisons between the center and the edges that is not sharp.

 

[[email protected]]

Here is why you preferred your new Zeiss FL over your Swarovision 2 years ago and why you sold it.

In your own words:

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2246187&postcount=8

Read once again about that zone in the view of the Swarovisons between the center and the edges that is not sharp.

That was the 8.5x42. It had RB but the 8x32 doesn't. Plus the 32mm is much smaller and way lighter and has better ergonomics and has a bigger FOV. The ergonomics on the 32mm SV are way better than the Zeiss Fl which is a short fat little stubby critter that doesn't fit my hands. The 8x32 SV is the best birding binocular on the market.

 

[stephen b]

Dennis- were you really looking for an honest discussion here with your original post ?-?? Or were you just looking to pick fights with people and quote- counter post ( even with yourself at one point) ad nauseam and continue with your endless babble about how yours is better or bigger than everyone else's??

I swear you just like to argue and debate for no real apparent reason to get everyone to play your game and apparently you like it and it works out for you. If you were really were convinced that what you had at the time was the best - then you would not change your own mind as much as you do. So you just need to convince yourself and stick with it and stop all this madness. Because you really do seem to be an attention seeking, narcisisstic fart on the skillet that does not have lasting conviction in your own opinions.

And BTW- you shot me down as a Swaro fan boy and told me I did not know what I was talking about when I gave my opinion ( my own personal opinion- for me) that the 8x32 SV was better to me optically overall than the EDG and the SE. And then had the gall to say my opinion was based on a bias of paying so much for the SV. While now your new mantra is people have to just be willing to spend the $$ and be willing to pony up to have "the best"- which to you is just what ever your flavor of the year/ month is.

You really are a piece of work.

 

[Torview]

As Chosun suggests, we`ll go through this all over again soon when the 32mm HT comes out !

Looking forward to to that one............

..Is the best roof in the world better optically than the best roof in the world ?....

 

[BruceH]

"The truth is the best roofs in the world aren't better optically than the best porros."

The big point I am making here is I disagree with that statement. The SV Is better optically than any porro and it is the first roof I can say that about. I compared it to the best porro's and it is simply better. It is better than the SE, the EII or even the Habicht and easier to use than all of them.

Yet here is a post from Aug, 2012 in response to a favorable review of the 8X32 SV:

Just trying to open your eyes. It's annoying to continually hear that the SV is the best binocular blah blah blah when it isn't. You have probably never tried a good porro. The 10 foot test is an indicator of sharpness at distance. The SE is sharper at a distance also.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2503645&postcount=11

In addition to the contradiction, I do see some merit in the underlined part of the statement.

(Note: Underline added by me.)

 

[Torview]

Bruce I nearly wet myself, well done for finding that one !

I`ll just tack on this Dennis statement regarding the 32mm SV:-

"Compare them to an SE at 10 feet with a DVD case. It will make you cry."

 

[BruceH]

Torview .... some more, just for you!

That was the 8.5x42. It had RB but the 8x32 doesn't. ........... The 8x32 SV is the best birding binocular on the market.

Here is a post from Oct. 2012 in reply to a favorable review of the SV 8X32 and SE:

Allbinos and all there testing gave the nod to the 10x42 EDG over the 10x42 SV and the EDG 8x42 is number one in the 8x42 category over the Zeiss FL just as I determined when I had them both. Everytime they test an EDG it comes out number one and if they tested the 8x32 EDG it would be number one over the 8x32 SV. I trust them and there expertise and testing and my own eyes more than your opinion and so should everybody else. At least we agree on the SE. I compared an 8x32 SV but I still see rolling ball and it didn't impress me that much especially compared to the SE. Everybody could save themselves alot of time and money if they would just listen to me. I know what I am talking about.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2560035&postcount=18

If I listened, instead of saving money, I would have spent a fortune on....
- Zeiss 8X32 FL
- Nikon 8X32 EDG-II
- Nikon SE 8X32
- Nikon 8X30 EII
- Swaro Habitcht
- Sworovision 8X32 EL
- a trunk full of one week wonders

(Note: Underlining and bolding added by me.)

 

[Chosun Juan]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh ............. but that was with the 8x32 SV @ $2129 :eek!:

It's a whole nuther story @ $1600 .......... :scribe:
Trust me - "I know what I am talking about" :brains:

....... "It will make you cry" :'D



Chosun :gh:

 

[pompadour]

Has any one individual with the exception of Galileo been so much discussed in connection with optics as Dennis?:loveme:Abbe, Alhazen, Euclid, Foucault, Fresnel, Herschel, Kepler, Leeuwenhoek, Porro, Schott, Snell, Zeiss? I doubt it! PS Oh I forgot Newton. (Dennis gets bronze.)

 

[Torview]

Going back to the OP question, is the 32mm SV the best roof optically anyhow ?

It may be the best all round Birding roof, but that`s another matter.

Best SV optically I`v tried is the 10x50, and the Ultravid HD 10x50 is stunning optically as well.

Would`nt be my choice for Birding, but the best optics in a roof ?