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Countries with No Bird Value? (2 Viewers)

Another slant on this and a question the OP could have asked would be

'Which countries should I prioritise visiting in order to build up my world bird list'

I'm assuming it wasn't just a rhetorical question the OP was asking initially. If starting from a low starting point I still don't think you could go about this purely as a numbers game. For example you'd scrap Europe altogether - 1 or 2 African countries in 3 weeks would get you the same number of species or so. But that doesn't wholly make sense.

As has been said, there is more to birding than just numbers on a list. It has been traditional to hit a cheap tropical country like the Gambia, or even Goa (India) to start off tropical birding - going for eg an intense S American/Amazonian trip with no prior experience could be rather overwhelming, and also for many somewhat unsatisfying - the vast majority of ticks would be either pointed out to you by a guide, or instantly forgotten amongst all the others.

For the average birder starting an intense world listing exercise - hmmm, there has to be some value in building up experiences, knowledge and ticks.


But it's all an interesting discussion!

This is very true. I've only been to south America once on a none birding trip and still picked up nearly 200 species but 7 years down the line I only have good memories of 30 or so of them. You need to spend time in an area to build experience and familiarity.
 
And as for that Crossbill? When was the last time you heard of an endemic in a well known country, with a large number of birders, which is almost impossible to see and / or identify!

Well, probably a significant number of countries in South America have endemic tapaculos that would meet that description, but I think it's safe to say that they don't have a large numbers of birders! So I take your point.

huh

What about US States and Canadian Provinces?

In Canada, I would say that of all the provinces and territories, only Prince Edward Island has nothing going for it. ("Way harsh, bro |8.|." "Yea, sad, but true.") I know I will receive bushels of russet potatoes hurled at my head (by pig-tailed, red-haired girls) for saying this.

It used to - for years, it was the only place in the country where you could go for Piping Plover and be pretty much guaranteed of a sighting - but now, that species has recovered somewhat, and can be found elsewhere without too much difficulty.

All the other provinces and territories have something - there are no endemics, of course - but they all have some worthy breeding or migration spectacle to see.
 
Interesting question about the fewest European countries to see everything in Europe. If we take Europe from a purely political perspective (including Cyprus, Turkey, western Russia and Spanish/Portuguese islands) and using IOC taxonomy I would say:

For the endemics:
UK
Portugal
Spain
France
Cyprus

Then you would only need to visit Iceland, Russia and Turkey to clean up.
 
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This is very true. I've only been to south America once on a none birding trip and still picked up nearly 200 species but 7 years down the line I only have good memories of 30 or so of them. You need to spend time in an area to build experience and familiarity.

Absolutely. My PhD research allowed me to spend a cumulative total of about 8 months in eastern Ecuador, and because of that I can tell you something about, and recall the vocalizations for the majority of, probably 300+ species found there. However, I often see species in my life list from, say, my trip to Brazil some years ago, and have no recollection of seeing it. Ok, I clearly remember the Toco Toucan, Blue Manakin, a few other spectacular species, but what did that spinetail look like now? Maybe I should be more diligent about taking detailed notes, I bet rereading my own notes would help me remember such obscure species.

re:US states... the southeastern states have a lot to offer, but I think get overlooked because you can find the same specialties, migrants, and then some in Florida or Texas. I'm hard pressed to think of a state that has no "bird value" in a general sense, but there are plenty that you could bypass if you're just trying to see all of North America's birds. Hit California, Arizona, Florida, Texas, Alaska, and maybe one state each in the Midwest and New England and you're almost covered.
 
Interesting question about the fewest European countries to see everything in Europe. If we take Europe from a purely political perspective (including Cyprus, Turkey, western Russia and Spanish/Portuguese islands) and using IOC taxonomy I would say:

For the endemics:
UK
Portugal
Spain
France
Cyprus

Then you would only need to visit Iceland, Russia and Turkey to clean up.

You would seriously expect to be able to visit western Russia and clean up on all the northern species as an option to using known gen and sites and doing eastern europe/scandinavia? :eek!:

Practicality/realism must come into it a bit? ;)
 
If you are non-European, in Europe you need to visit two places: Spain + island chains and Turkey to have all "European" regular species. Leaves about the only Rock Patridge.

Er, maybe I am missing something, but there are oodles of European species that do not occur in either of these countries.
 
You would seriously expect to be able to visit western Russia and clean up on all the northern species as an option to using known gen and sites and doing eastern europe/scandinavia? :eek!:

Practicality/realism must come into it a bit? ;)

Absolutely agree. That is just what would theoretically be possible. Practically it would be much easier to add more countries.
 
No chance - I do not even twitch much because I am so bad at it! I went to the High Tides a month ago at Parkgate in Cheshire and from there set off to see the BB Pipit and by the time I got there it had gone AWOL! I am just simply curious as to what a world lister would do?

When I go bird-watching I like to go for a day out and a good time. There are some rarities knocking about around the north-west of England but I would rather go to Leighton Moss and have a good wander, relax, admire and have that historic orange drizzle! If I wanted a tick I am sure there are plenty around to be had.

If I had to choose birding destinations which I could go to in a year then I would choose Iceland, Portugal, Finland, Norway, Poland, Estonia, Turkey, Jordan, Iran, Oman, Morocco, Egypt, Kenya, Tanzania, Namibia, Tajikistan, USA, Canada. I probably have a very strong Northern hemisphere bias and in that a bias to the "old world". I am a bit odd in the sense that I ignore South American nature programmes, also South-East Asian, Australian. I think i have more interested seeing the Pampas of South America than the Amazon!


Yes I do want to know where people would go for ticks only. I just want to understand birding how others do it.




Andrew

I don't think that people have misinterpreted the thread.



This pretty clearly defines it. 'Simply to see as many species as possible.'

I do however totally agree that simply because there are no ticks there does not mean that it has 'no bird value'. My only currently booked holiday is to somewhere where I have no targets and I'm going exactly because of the bird value!

I think Himalaya is planning a big year. On the back of a fagpacket 5,000 has to be possible. ;)

All the best
 
For birding only: tropical areas all the way. Sitting one morning in a veranda looking at 50 different species with about 8 of those being hummingbirds beats any of the places you mentioned any time for me.

Niels
 
The only place that springs to mind is Guam. A bit like the Maldives - but without the introductions.

Yes, I was going to say Guam, too. It's easy to get to from where I am in Japan, but I have been told that introduced rats and snakes killed off all the birds of the island, and that there's essentially nothing at all - not 'ticks you can get more easily elsewhere' but literally nothing.
 
I'd add Japan as a destination. Not just because I'm biased but, there are a shed load of endemics and, if you go at the right time, you can pick up species that are rightly classed as megas in Europe fairly easily. The only trouble is that you'll have to mug a lot of small kids for their pocket money in order to afford it.
 
I'd add Japan as a destination. Not just because I'm biased but, there are a shed load of endemics and, if you go at the right time, you can pick up species that are rightly classed as megas in Europe fairly easily. The only trouble is that you'll have to mug a lot of small kids for their pocket money in order to afford it.

But I think it's not just the 'right time', Chris, you have also to do a complete tour of the country because these birds are spread out and it will cost a lot of money, and you'll dip some anyway (Japanese Reed Bunting) because they are very rare or just because (Crested Kingfisher).

But since the topic has arisen, I'll tell you, Chris, about a great day or two last week on my local patch in central Nara. You will understand that these birds are not rare as such, but they are rare where I am.

In the Heijo Palace Site, they have been cutting down the reeds to let them re-grow for Spring, leaving just a couple of small patches. The Red-breasted Crakes (about ten individuals) and Eurasian Rails (three or four) which are there were wandering around in the open quite unconcerned. The Reed Buntings (usually well hidden) were out in the open along with the Black-faced Buntings, Rustic Buntings and Meadow Buntings (which all show themselves much more anyway). And Japanese Bush Warbler was also out in the open. We have year-round Skylarks in the same patch, and the Grey-headed Lapwing are back looking for breeding sites (they fledge their first brood before the rice fields are flooded around the beginning of May).

And in a nearby grove were not only the Dusky Thrushes which are here in large numbers through the winter along with Pale Thrushes, but Brown-headed Thrush, Eyebrowed Thrush and Naumann's Thrush (one each). And there was a flock of four Japanese Waxwings in the same tree as the Naumann's.

And the Wryneck (one or two pairs every year), not to be outdone, spent most of two days prancing around two metres away from the cameramen.

All this in an area about 100m x 100m in the middle of our city (and the mayor says there is no budget to make a nature reserve in this area, even though it would add to the tourist attractions (the place is already a Unesco historical world site)).

And if you moved ten minutes away, on the same day you got Chestnut-cheeked Bunting out in the open, along with Long-tailed Rosefinch, Kingfisher, Osprey and Sparrowhawk, as well as Mandarin Ducks and Baikal Teal (not so out in the open these last two, but visible).

I'm leaving out all the regular birds (Crows, Wagtails, White-eyes, Sparrows, Tits, Cormorants, Egrets, and the usual ducks, etc).

But this was a two-day feast. Don't come to Japan thinking this will be available anytime. And, as I said, these are not endemics, but many scarce, or not easy to see in our area.
 

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As someone who is not European and so still needs a substantial number of your birds, I would probably focus on Spain, Turkey, and Poland. One would have to imagine that with enough effort and proper timing you could knock off pretty much the majority of Europe's avifauna in visits to those places.

Admittedly, having birded Great Britain twice now, I would rather hit up any place in the Neotropics or Southeast Asia first.
 
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