Zeiss 15x60 B/GA T*...How good is a late model by today's standards? (2 Viewers)

[Rathaus]

Greetings all,

I have an opportunity to purchase a nearly mint condition late version of this Bino. I cannot try it, but I've gathered bino data with very good purchase outcomes before. Though, the likely consequence is that (as somebody stated recently) I'll be resigning myself to a period of sack cloth and lentils and rice...and probably far better off for it.

Im a big porro fan (various old and new Habichts and Fujinons...I have no brand obsessions). I'm also a Zeiss noob but I'm looking at this particular 15x60 Zeiss for terrestrial viewing of endangered marsupials during the day and at dusk in wilderness areas mostly accessible by car. I would also use it for raptors too. I'm not into astronomy as much as I used to be...but I still enjoy a glimpse.

10x and over I usually view with anchored elbows or a tripod. I have no bins over 10x barring a hideous 15x70 skymaster which has deteoriated terribly with age and which I stopped using long ago. I found it very useful before it died.

I've done various searches on the Internet and done my reading and now I'm intrigued with this particular Zeiss. I don't usually buy a Bino with a view to selling it (I've never sold one actually...would rather just give it to a loved one etc)...so I now realise that I also enjoy the slow process of collecting nice bins.


Are there any current owners of a later model BGAT 15x60 still on the forums here?

What are your impressions and experiences with this bino?

What year would a BGAT serial number 649*** be? Soft eye cups and lens caps...made in Germany etc

How do you rate the big Zeiss against the likes of the Fujinon 16x70 and Nikon 18x70?...I do prefer a central focus.

How does it stack up against current roofs of similar spec?

Is it weather proof?

Why are there so few of these around?


All of my binocs have varying strengths and areas of weakness, especially depending on who looks through them, so I hope I'm pragmatic enough to expect the same from these big Zeiss. I'm not expecting a perfect binocular here, but would like to know where they fit into the scheme of things, especially regarding porros.

From my experience with my porro Swarovski Habichts, I am aware that an older style porro with good design combined with more up to date coatings can be a stunning and almost timeless instrument. Does this apply similarly to this Zeiss?

Thanks in advance for any feedback and collective knowledge.
Cheers, Rathaus

 

[james holdsworth]

I wanted to add one to my collection a few years back and sampled a few late series ''B'' models. I knew well the hype surrounding this binocular and needed to see for myself.

Compared to modern optics - like the SV series or HT's, the 15x60 lacked contrast and lacked the punch / transparency of modern glass. CA is moderate, sweet spot fairly small, sharpness good but white's clearly creamy - so transmission low by today's standard.

Like the Design Selections - these are great collectors items but really don't hold up to modern glass, IMO. Never did pick one up - as no one would let one go for less than $1500!

I've frequently been underwhelmed by older glass with great reputations - I find the Nikon E2 to have poor contrast and a dull, flat view and I find the 8x30 Habicht to produce way too many extraneous reflections and flares to be of much use in the field.

 

[Rathaus]

I wanted to add one to my collection a few years back and sampled a few late series ''B'' models. I knew well the hype surrounding this binocular and needed to see for myself.

Compared to modern optics - like the SV series or HT's, the 15x60 lacked contrast and lacked the punch / transparency of modern glass. CA is moderate, sweet spot fairly small, sharpness good but white's clearly creamy - so transmission low by today's standard.

Like the Design Selections - these are great collectors items but really don't hold up to modern glass, IMO. Never did pick one up - as no one would let one go for less than $1500!

I've frequently been underwhelmed by older glass with great reputations - I find the Nikon E2 to have poor contrast and a dull, flat view and I find the 8x30 Habicht to produce way too many extraneous reflections and flares to be of much use in the field.

Thanks for your your Zeiss sample trial feedback and for putting it into your own context with regard to the little Habicht and Nikon.
Your congruence of underwhelment with the Zeiss 15x60, nikon e2 and Habicht, bins that I otherwise like very much, bodes well for me and the big Zeiss.

Many thanks,
Rathaus

 

[perterra]

Thanks for your your Zeiss sample trial feedback and for putting it into your own context with regard to the little Habicht and Nikon.
Your congruence of underwhelment with the Zeiss 15x60, nikon e2 and Habicht, bins that I otherwise like very much, bodes well for me and the big Zeiss.

Many thanks,
Rathaus

A great example of putting it in perspective. :-O

 

[John Dracon]

After reading Jame's comments on the Zeiss 15x60 BGAT, a Mark Twain quote comes to mind, "It is a difference of opinion which makes a horse race." We all see things differently, but to state the E2 (which means Nikon 8x30 and 10x35) has a "dull, flat view" is to suggest that Canadian and American English are two different languages.

The Zeiss's sweet spot is huge, and the entire FOV is useful all the way to the edges. Its light transmission is over 90%. Jame's obvious disdain means that some other user will have a chance to have one of these less than modern relics.

On to some data taken from 1992 Zeiss literature. The Zeiss is multi-coated with the T* designation. Light transmission is over 90%. Magnification of course is 15 and objective lens diameter 60 mm. It has the hard rubber fold down eye cups which are replaceable. Eye relief folded down is not mentioned, but it is generous enough to to give full FOV with glasses or sunglasses on.

Close focusing distance (m)(f) 15/49.2
FOV at 1,000 m ((m) (f) 75.6/248
Twilight factor 30
Exit pupil (mm) 4
Approx. height with extended eyecups (mm) 192/7.5
Width (mm) at PD 65mm 219/8.6
Approx. weight (g)(lbs)1,576/3.4

My impressions after using this binocular for 20 years. No other binocular made is really comparable. While not waterproof, it is highly splash resistant. The covering is as tough as they make. The longitudinal ribs have real grip function. Focusing is smooth with the middle finger turning the focus knob. The carrying strap coming with it is contoured but thin and not really comfortable for long time use. The objective covers (cup like) which attach to the body function for a while, but the connection is the weak point, and eventually they tear loose. I put Velcro tabs on the inside of the barrels and stick them there when using it. The cups press over the objectives and stay put. I made a heavy duty leather case to carry and store them.

These are what I call a pick-up truck glass, handy to ride on a seat and very good for a quick peek until the arms fatigue. They are best on a tripod or window mount. Zeiss and Nikon make a tripod adaptor which fits the Zeiss. I have both and find the Nikon to my liking. The Zeiss adaptor is good but quite expensive.

Sitting with your back against something solid with elbows resting on your knees, you can find enough steadiness for short time use.

They rarely come up for sale, I suspect, for two reasons. There weren't that many made, and no one is going to let them go for a bargain price. They definitely have a birding function on a tripod when the eyes get tired looking through a spotting scope. They are a major investment and will be useful in many years to come.

Zeiss quality at its best.

Zeiss's strange looking but highly functional Bino-Fix tripod adaptor accommodates these big "honkers" very easily. Quick on and quick off.

John

 

[Pinewood]

Hello Rathaus,

Are you a big fan of Porro's or a fan of big Porro's?

I have looked at the heavens, Orion's belt and sword, with this binocular and the view was breath taking. I suspect that it could split Albireo, rather handily. Binocular astronmers have high praise for the Nikon 18x70. I would call this binocular a fine instrument, my highest praise. I cannot see using this hand held but on a tripod, one has to consider how it compares to a 'scope. I understand John's comment that it would be more relaxing than a 'scope.

I believe that this bonocular may have been designed for European hunters, who like to hunt boar and stags from platforms, at dawn or dusk. The twilight factor of 30 is very hight but I guess that Zeiss felt that the 8x56 Dialyt Classic was enough for hunters.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:

P.S. The astronomy crowd always favour magnification and objective size, so their enthusiasm for the Nikon 18x70 may not be for its inherent qualities.

 

[John Dracon]

Rathaus - Go to the Leica page where the Leica Schott Glass - question is found. Click on that and go to comment # 10 by Troubodor. Lee has a history reference to Zeiss. Click on that and you will find an article, "The very last Carl Zeiss 15x60 B/GA Binoculars. Interesting reading. The last production was in 1998 and was reserved for a special clientele of Company Seven. In the two page article are some interesting comments, among them the utterly gratuitous comment, "If you have to ask the price then you can not afford it but for the record: the price will be $2,295.00 each."

We at Buffalo High hadn't added "gratuitous" to our rather basic vocabularies back then in 1953, but when I was six months out of high school and through basic training and advanced combat training in the U.S. Marine Corps and on my way to Korea, and found myself in a fancy European car show room one day in Los Angeles looking at a Porsche, I knew what the word "snooty" meant. And when I innocently asked the salesman standing there in his double breasted suit and bright tie and highly polished shoes" What does that cost?," he arrogantly stated, "If you have to ask the price...", and I instantly knew I was being insulted. No one enjoys being insulted, even hayseeds from Buffalo High. I was naive, but I wasn't dumb. I felt the urge to grasp him by the tie and rattle him around a bit. Standing 6'3'' and a lean 185 lbs, and full of testosterone at age 18, I would make him think twice before saying that to anyone. But I didn't. We were warned to stay out of trouble prior to shipping out.

Being 1998 was 17 years ago, my math would suggest current costs at Zeiss would be over $3,000 to make the same 15x60.

John

 

[Rathaus]

James, Arthur and John,

Your valuable input based on experience is much appreciated. The Internet at its best.

James, thanking you for your comparative feedback from your experience...my op title did ask this very question.

Cloudy Nights has also been a valuable source of information.

John, I skimmed that massive Zeiss tome. I hope I won't be examined on it, but I do intend to read more of it later. Extremely informative. I found the link to the 15x60 BGAT, and I can see now why you made your remark about the crass affordability comments. Otherwise a great read.

It seems to me that the Zeiss 15x60 is an instrument that Zeiss put absolutely everything they had into. I'm aware that sometimes flagship products, despite their lofty prices, don't aways recoup their development and manufacturing costs...though I guess the technology and perception of status does trickle down the line. I wonder if this was the case for this zeiss?

Regardless, I've been perusing the availability of these bins, and they are thin on the ground. An Internet search will bring up very few eBay sales...one being in 2001.

So, given I had the opportunity, and following my research and the excellent feedback from yourself and others (including Phil Harrington), I've snapped the thing up. I also figured that if there are any optical or mechanical problems with it, Zeiss will only be too happy to deal with this particular binocular of theirs.

I'll try to attach a low def photo of them....they're in transit. A Nikon tripod adaptor is included. The original box and accessories are included.

Cheers,

Rathaus

 

[Rathaus]

Another shot

Edit: truthfully, my own laxness partly carried this purchase. I hadn't quite realised how much the Australian dollar had slid until I got my PayPal invoice! I should have been wearing a charged defibrillator at the time. We were on a parity with you not so long ago.

 

[gulf1263]

Zeiss 15x60 G/GA T*...How good is a late model by todays standards?

The two samples I had a chance to look through, mounted on a tripod, gave a gorgeous view.
When you look at how at how much glass is used you can begin to understand why it was so expensive.
Wish I had bought one, even though I could not afford it on my meager salary.
Think of this purchase as a long term emotional investment in a highly functional piece of optical history.
Use it and enjoy it.
Art

 

[Rathaus]

The two samples I had a chance to look through, mounted on a tripod, gave a gorgeous view.
When you look at how at how much glass is used you can begin to understand why it was so expensive.
Wish I had bought one, even though I could not afford it on my meager salary.
Think of this purchase as a long term emotional investment in a highly functional piece of optical history.
Use it and enjoy it.
Art

Art,

your words are reassuring. Many thanks for that. Your last couple of sentences represent the perfect distillation for me.

I'll let you know how they go.

Warm regards,
Rathaus

 

[bats21]

I have a pair of Conquest 12 X 45 and they are great never any complaints

 

[Rathaus]

They arrived

I received the big zeiss in the mail today. They were held in customs and I had to pay fees for taxes and taxes for fees etc. oh well...all in.

I'll put up a few comparison pictures. The packaging was humongous. This binocular does not disappoint on first impressions. It is heavy and clearly wrought in an era where nothing, nothing, was compromised by the cunning cost cutting measures of modern board meetings, bean counters and steering committees.

It's a bright and hazy day..some bushfires about so not ideal for viewing. What I did do was to clean the eyepieces. There was eye lash oil in spades. Everything seems to be virtually pristine otherwise. The lenses are stunning to behold once cleaned. The occulars were perfect. Collimation perfect...thank goodness. This really is a special instrument.

Once again, many thanks for the feedback and info regarding this bino and the purchase. It's not something done lightly.

Apologies in advance if I bore anyone with the photos and my enthusiasm for this new bino.

 

[Rathaus]

Appears to be in good condition

 

[Rathaus]

I'm no expert at uploading photos. It won't do full def so I just email them to myself at a lower definition, then upload.

Here is a size reference for those interested. The Zeiss with The fujinon FMTR SX 7x50

 

[opticjunkie]

I received the big zeiss in the mail today. They were held in customs and I had to pay fees for taxes and taxes for fees etc. oh well...all in.

I'll put up a few comparison pictures. The packaging was humongous. This binocular does not disappoint on first impressions. It is heavy and clearly wrought in an era where nothing, nothing, was compromised by the cunning cost cutting measures of modern board meetings bean counters and steering committees.

It's a bright and hazy day..some bushfires about so not ideal for viewing. What I did do was to clean the eyepieces. There was eye lash oil in spades. Everything seems to be virtually pristine otherwise. The lenses are stunning to behold once cleaned. The occulars were perfect. Collimation perfect...thank goodness.

Beautiful...

Hope you get years of satisfaction from that baby

PS don't forget to point it UP towards the heavens at night, the view is outstanding

I MISS mine......

cheers
Peter

 

[Rathaus]

A quick glimpse on this hazy day shows a huge apfov..larger than I expected. If anything, Too bright for comfort right now. For an older school bino, they're slicing through the haze superbly. These are stunning binoculars.

 

[Rathaus]

Beautiful...

Hope you get years of satisfaction from that baby

PS don't forget to point it UP towards the heavens at night, the view is outstanding

I MISS mine......

cheers
Peter

Cheers Peter. They came with a very nice Nikon tripod mount. I see no sign of it ever being used on the centre shaft area.

 

[Rathaus]

Time to tuck them into bed...

 

[opticjunkie]

Cheers Peter. They came with a very nice Nikon tripod mount. I see no sign of it ever being used on the centre shaft area.

Like I said before..BRILLIANT

Great glass my friend, especially mounted on a tripod, you pick up so much detail

well done:t: