Zeiss Victory 10x42 T* FL Rubber Armouring (2 Viewers)

[MiddleRiver]

Hello Temmie

The tone of your post is somewhat aggressive and adversarial. I'm not sure how I have upset you.... perhaps you work for Zeiss. In any case I simply dont have the time, or frankly the desire to reply to this type of inquisition.

Freundliche Grüsse
Michael

Sadly, forum not infrequently gets a little 'rough'. Of course your original post was concerning (to Zeiss owners), so it was bound to get scrutiny and occasionally people show up and post nonsense (bordering on spam or provocation), so there's that...

I have no reason to doubt you but - as a Zeiss owner - I'm very interested in the reasons for the high repair quote and the extent of damage etc. I hope you'll continue to update on the thread and in fact I'd love to see pic of bins or any other details. I'm in US where warranty - as I understand it - is different, but I also own an FL (with no issues thankfully) and poor Zeiss service would be a concern!

 

[Acorndrive]

Sadly, forum not infrequently gets a little 'rough'. Of course your original post was concerning (to Zeiss owners), so it was bound to get scrutiny and occasionally people show up and post nonsense (bordering on spam or provocation), so there's that...

I have no reason to doubt you but - as a Zeiss owner - I'm very interested in the reasons for the high repair quote and the extent of damage etc. I hope you'll continue to update on the thread and in fact I'd love to see pic of bins or any other details. I'm in US where warranty - as I understand it - is different, but I also own an FL (with no issues thankfully) and poor Zeiss service would be a concern!

Below the fault report from Zeiss. Google translate can help here. I quoted the repair cost in USD, as Swiss Francs are perhaps not familiar to all. My main issue was that the repair cost equalled the new price of the same model, available currently for circa 1,400CHF. I would have been more than happy to pay up to 600 CHF to repair.
I am attaching some photos which clearly display the armouring problem.

.Einzeltrieb fehlerhaft
• Mitteltrieb fehlerhaft
• Objektivstutzen beschädigt links und rechts
• Objektiv/e Kratzer links und rechts
• Gummierung fehlerhaft links und rechts, geweitet!

 

[MiddleRiver]

Michael,
Thanks for taking time to share pics etc.
It looks like they are a relatively well-used pair and I'd also want to refurb them. I agree that the quote is higher than probably the value of bins, and that's very unfortunate. I would have hoped Zeiss could do better. I'd be curious to know other's experiences in similar circumstances.

 

[Patudo]

If the text in German is accurate this binocular has some serious issues - faults in its "individual drive" (suspect this is diopter?) and "central drive" (focuser?) plus damage to both lens mounts and scratches to left and right lenses. The rubber armouring issues are minor by comparison.

The OP might have been quoted the cost of a direct replacement as getting all those issues repaired might have been uneconomic - maybe Gary or someone familiar with the complexities of repairing advanced roof prism binoculars might weigh in.

I'm afraid that is part of the game when chasing secondhand bargains - if the price of a well known quality binocular is "very interesting" there are very likely to be "very interesting" issues...

 

[Conndomat]

The OP might have been quoted the cost of a direct replacement as getting all those issues repaired might have been uneconomic -

I see it that way too!

To put it charmingly, the binoculars are quite a ruin, just changing the lens (left/right) should cost around 500 euros.

In fact, the total repair costs stated above are probably normal; with such clear defects, Zeiss doesn't do it for free.

Andreas

 

[MiddleRiver]

I just translated and yes, it sounds more serious than just armor failing. In that context I suppose $1400US is not unreasonable for replacement or totally refurbished FL's.

 

[garymh]

Hi,

The binocular needed :

New ocular lenses ( Badly scratched )
New objective lenses ( Badly scratched )
New objective mounts
Repair to the focus mechanism
Repair to the dioptre Mechanism
Replacement armour

This can quickly add up to 1,070.00 Euro


Gary

 

[Swissboy]

.............................

The repair costs come to USD 1,450, with an estimated delivery time of 5 weeks.

Needless to say this is not an offer I will be availing of. Having now experienced both Swarovski and Zeiss service, there is for me a clear difference both in response time, flexibility and cost between the two. Your mileage may vary.

Looking at your comparisons, I think you are comparing two very different situations, something we call comparing apples with pears.

It's very easy to grab some small items like eye cups from the supplies and stuffing them into an envelope as long as these supplies are still available. So this can be done even by some non-specialist.

Assessing an obviously rather ruined binocular model to provide a serious quote for repairs requires a specialist, and that person will need some time. Such employees are rather rare, so it's obvious their time will be kind of a bottle-neck in the services a company can provide.

So the way you made all this sound was a rather unfair strike against Zeiss, I feel. Sure, Swarovski may have a more generous way of handling repair issues. But they tend to sell their products at considerably higher prices when new. So in a way, one pays in advance for some potential generosity in warranty later on.

Edit: If you only want a replacement of the rubber armour you could ask Zeiss for a specific quote just for that. I'm not sure whether they would be willing to do that, but it might be worth a try since you seem happy with the optical performance according to your first post.

 

[PYRTLE]

In essence Acorndrive has bought a pair of what were once, high specification Zeiss binoculars but in a poor condition. Returned them to Zeiss hoping the rubber armouring would be repaired under warranty, but unaware that there was "only" a 10 year EU warranty ( for manufactured defects ) with these that had now expired.
ZEISS have quoted for repair and service to return these in optimum condition ( as is usual with premium optic manufacturers ) which the OP has considered too costly.

Sadly it is probably too late to return them to the seller for a full refund but even with modern consumer protection it is always a matter of buyer beware particularly if the deal seems too good to be true.

 

[dries1]

When buying used items like Binoculars, ask questions, or for better photographs. If the seller is unresponsive move on. Think about it, if one saw the armor. or the lens with scratches allover them, would they still buy the item?

 

[tenex]

Last, you aren't following up on your last post and in this topic, while you get alerts every time someone reacted in this topic.

This is an optional feature in the user profile; I forget whether it's on by default, but in any case Michael may have it off.

It looks like they are a relatively well-used pair

Likely an understatement... but if Michael examined it and found only the armor to be an issue, then the lens scratches may be minor, the focuser seems to work well enough, any problem with lens mounts is not obvious, and Zeiss repair has higher standards for all these things than some users might. Whether the bill is fair for a bin that should still be in warranty or only recently out of it, is another question. Swarovski routinely does better, as does Leica. (Read a substantially equivalent case: Leica is not getting the attention it deserves)

Do we want to say that Zeiss is being ungenerous? I'd be inclined to, but it's a judgment call. Whether a company chooses to do work gratis that they might charge for, to build good will with customers, is certainly up to them. But I won't think of picking up a "bargain" Zeiss...

 

[garymh]

If scratches on the lenses are minor in most cases Zeiss will not provide an estimate to replace them - when they are bad enough to have a negative effect on the image they will.

The warranty does not cover scratched lenses as they are caused by bad cleaning, etc. - not a manufacturing defect.

Problems with the lens mounts may not initially be obvious as they are under the armour - once the armour is removed they will be noticed. If they are badly damaged it will be impossible to remove the lenses or even turn them for adjustment. (see attached picture) .

The Victory FL has been out of production for several years and most , if not all of them, are no longer covered by the 10-year European warranty.

Any self-respecting manufacturer has high standards for repairs. They want the repaired product to perform as well as when it was new. They do not want
to ignore minor defects that the user will not notice only for them to appear at a later date and cause more problems.


Gary

 

[temmie]

Hello Temmie

The tone of your post is somewhat aggressive and adversarial. I'm not sure how I have upset you.... perhaps you work for Zeiss. In any case I simply dont have the time, or frankly the desire to reply to this type of inquisition.

Freundliche Grüsse
Michael

my post was anything but agressive, and going through each of my questions, these have been (finally) adressed and everything that I thought it was (contrary to what the first couple of posts suggested) turned out to be true: you got what you paid for and any Victory T*FL for that price is what it is, but most on this forum would probably not even think of selling a binocular this worn out.

You could have left the 'perhaps you work for Zeiss'. That kind of a snarky remark but ofcourse just drifting off topic. I have no affiliations whatsoever with any binocular brand (Zeiss / Leica / Swarovski: feel free to sponsor me!) , but I do happen to know regional representatives of some of the alpha binocular brands.

The only thing I can add is that the focuser on the T*FL is prone to some bending if the binoculars have been used roughly.
I had exactly this issue (no coincidence as my binoculars are sometimes squeezed in my backpack while travelling), and Zeiss explained that repairing the focuser also involved refilling with nitrogen, so I guess that not repairing this, is a potential risk for the bins not being waterproof anymore, and Zeiss cannot ignore this issue in their quote if they want to turn back a solid working binocular according to their quality standards.

 

[PYRTLE]

Hello Michael,
Did you finally get your issues resolved?