Benefits of 10x binos ? (1 Viewer)

[dalat]

Nothing else but a high-quality 10x32 offers that combination of power, field of view, weight, and size.

I wanted to believe the same thing about the 10x32 and bought a Zeiss FL of that size a while ago. Wonderful bin, especially the large AFOV, nice and compact. But it didn't work for me. Too much handshake, especially when out of breath at mountain hikes (which was the main purpose I bought them for), also the focus speed was a bit too fast for me (but that has nothing to do with the size and mag).

For me, the 8x42 turned out to be pretty much all I need from a binocular. For birding where more mag is needed, I bring along a scope (big one at the lake, small one in the mountains). For birding where I don't need a scope (e.g. rainforest), the 8x is better than 10x for all the mentionned reasons.

While I get the appeal of owning and using many toys, I don't agree that one really needs two or more binoculars for birding. A single, good 8x32, 7x42 or 8x42 should do the job as allround birding bin. If anything, birders need a scope in addition to the binocular.

 

[Torview]

GG, I`v been using a 10x42 Trinovid of late, (its up for grabs in the classifieds at the moment), as I had convinced myself my 7x uvhd+ was`nt doing the job on distant waders and shorebirds well enough. Turns out, for me nothing could be further from the truth, I find the 10x very tiring and frustrating to use, its just too much and I give up virtually nothing with the 7x. Try and borrow one for a few days if you can, only thing its taught me is how "less is considerably more".

 

[Bwana1]

Try and borrow one for a few days if you can, only thing its taught me is how "less is considerably more".

Less is more for you maybe , I love the 10x's and have no problem with them...they have the ability that a 7-8x don't have.

 

[[email protected]]

Less is more for you maybe , I love the 10x's and have no problem with them...they have the ability that a 7-8x don't have.

I agree with you Bwana1. You can see more detail with a 10x than you can with an 8x. Unless you are looking at Warblers in heavy cover I would take a 10x over a 7x or 8x everytime.

 

[A2GG]

GG, I`v been using a 10x42 Trinovid of late, (its up for grabs in the classifieds at the moment), as I had convinced myself my 7x uvhd+ was`nt doing the job on distant waders and shorebirds well enough. Turns out, for me nothing could be further from the truth, I find the 10x very tiring and frustrating to use, its just too much and I give up virtually nothing with the 7x. Try and borrow one for a few days if you can, only thing its taught me is how "less is considerably more".

Very interesting and helpful ... thanks.

I'll be trying some 10's soon at the sports store mainly to judge stability or
hand shake. I'll get there before work one day or this weekend and I'll see for myself. I have no recollection of the few 10x bins I tried at stores since each experience was just too brief. I believe I tried a 10x32 conquest once and a 10x42 Nikon SE Porro, but can't remember any others.

 

[Theo98]

Very interesting and helpful ... thanks.

I'll be trying some 10's soon at the sports store mainly to judge stability or
hand shake. I'll get there before work one day or this weekend and I'll see for myself. I have no recollection of the few 10x bins I tried at stores since each experience was just too brief. I believe I tried a 10x32 conquest once and a 10x42 Nikon SE Porro, but can't remember any others.

GG,

If you aren't comfortable supporting the extra weight or can't stabilize the extra 10X power from hand shake for your normal glassing activity time frame, then as many here have stated, the 6X to 8X is your best bet to continue with in your birding excursions! :t:

Ted

 

[A2GG]

GG,

If you aren't comfortable supporting the extra weight or can't stabilize the extra 10X power from hand shake for your normal glassing activity time frame, then as many here have stated, the 6X to 8X is your best bet to continue with in your birding excursions! :t:

Ted

Thanks for the advice Ted. I have shoulder issues that have been around for years now and I feel burning in my shoulders rather quickly when holding the bin to my eyes. I noticed even with 7x, after a while, the image shake increasing from arm and shoulder fatigue. This discussion has helped me get some clarity.
I think I have ruled out 10x32 since I've always placed comfort with my eyeglasses as top priority and larger EP helps here quite a bit. Also, I'm wondering whether a small scope (like the compact ones Opticron and Celestron offer) may ultimately be a better choice for my needs than a 10x bino. I'm not ready for the scope yet, but may want one some day. Perhaps I should just wait until that day.
But, I'll still go ahead and try some 10's out at the store soon to get a better feel for them and to make up my mind.

 

[CliveP]

Thanks for the advice Ted. I have shoulder issues that have been around for years now and I feel burning in my shoulders rather quickly when holding the bin to my eyes. I noticed even with 7x, after a while, the image shake increasing from arm and shoulder fatigue. This discussion has helped me get some clarity.
I think I have ruled out 10x32 since I've always placed comfort with my eyeglasses as top priority and larger EP helps here quite a bit. Also, I'm wondering whether a small scope (like the compact ones Opticron and Celestron offer) may ultimately be a better choice for my needs than a 10x bino. I'm not ready for the scope yet, but may want one some day. Perhaps I should just wait until that day.
But, I'll still go ahead and try some 10's out at the store soon to get a better feel for them and to make up my mind.

Ok I'll guess.

One of those Noctovid thingies in 10x42 :t:

Just get your shoulder completely in plaster with the arm set in a bin hold position 8-P

 

[jremmons]

I have a shoulder injury right now - left shoulder tendonitis. I'm going through physical therapy. So, I am avoiding the big bins like 10x50 which will be too heavy for me.

You may want to try the 10x Razor HD or wait for the Monarch Hg. Both are light and have true field of view numbers similar to yesteryear's 8x bins (I,e, around 360ft). The Razor is quite impressive and although I liked the 8x, I find the 10x to be a bit better in terms of microcontrast.

 

[Andy Adcock]

If you'e birding in close forest, you may struggle to get on your subject with a narrower field of view which will also affect the light. I wouldn't take x10 in to the forest at all but there are clearly benefits to having the higher mag with e.g a bird sitting on a wire at 100m.

Size and weight is an issue for me too, if I was on a holiday with a 12 hour birding day in front of me, I wouldn't fancy having a pair of x10 round my neck all day!


Andy

 

[etudiant]

If you'e birding in close forest, you may struggle to get on your subject with a narrower field of view which will also affect the light. I wouldn't take x10 in to the forest at all but there are clearly benefits to having the higher mag with e.g a bird sitting on a wire at 100m.

Size and weight is an issue for me too, if I was on a holiday with a 12 hour birding day in front of me, I wouldn't fancy having a pair of x10 round my neck all day!


Andy

Agree entirely, the neck is not the place to hang optics.
Use an over the shoulder sling or a harness, your body will thank you.

That aside, I find the narrower FoV and the reduced DoF of my Canon 10x42s beneficial in denser foliage and underbrush.
It enables me to pick out the bird of interest more exactly, whether it be the selected specimen in a mixed flock or the skulker hiding some distance back in the shrubbery.

 

[Andy Adcock]

That aside, I find the narrower FoV and the reduced DoF of my Canon 10x42s beneficial in denser foliage and underbrush.
It enables me to pick out the bird of interest more exactly, whether it be the selected specimen in a mixed flock or the skulker hiding some distance back in the shrubbery.

I think you'll be in a very small group here Etudiant!

Unless you have a glaringly obvious point of reference and your target is still, the narrower field of view is a fairly major hinderence to most.

Compare to using a scope, most who have a zoom will use the lowest mag to find the bird before zooming in.


Andy

 

[Troubador]

Size and weight is an issue for me too, if I was on a holiday with a 12 hour birding day in front of me, I wouldn't fancy having a pair of x10 round my neck all day!


Andy

Andy

Since size and weight is related to objective lens size rather than magnification I am guessing you wouldn't be comfortable with a 42mm all day.

Lee

 

[Andy Adcock]

Andy

Since size and weight is related to objective lens size rather than magnification I am guessing you wouldn't be comfortable with a 42mm all day.

Lee

42mm is the standard for x8 is it not and x50 with a 42mm gives a reduced field of view.

The x10 I've seen have been mainly 50mm objective I think to counter this, not sure how else it could be done? Using x10 is a matter of compromise as indeed is using x8.

There's a case to be argued for 8 or 10 depending on a number of variables.

Andy

 

[Alexis Powell]

I have a nice assortment of bins covering magnifications from 6 to 10x. I bird in a range of habitat types, from forest to marsh to vast open grassland, often in the same morning. It is true that 10x reveals more detail than 8x (or 7x, or 8.5x...) at a given distance, but for me its disadvantages (DOF, FOV, shake) too often outweigh that advantage (slightly higher magnification). Consequently, I don't use my 10x bins. I used to think that I'd choose to use 10x bins strategically, on those days when I'm birding in a way or place that they'd be at their best, but in reality, I don't bother. In the rare instances that I need to see a bird just ~20% bigger (10x vs. 8x) to make the ID, I can generally move a bit closer with my ~8x bins. More often, a bird too small to ID at 8x is still too small at 10x, so I find it much more useful to carry a scope. If I'm going small/light (minimalist packing, travel, or distance hikes), that means Nikon 50ED with 27x eyepiece on a Velbon Ultra-Luxi tripod with RRS B-25 Pro ballhead. If I'm going convenient and easy to use (i.e. most birding in my usual haunts), that means a Nikon 78ED or 82ED with 30x eyepiece (and zoom eyepiece for magnification demanding emergencies) on a carbon fiber tripod, Gitzo 1720 pan head, and most importantly, a nice Op/Tech neoprene shoulder strap and accessory stabilizing strap so I can wear it fully extended hands-free yet deploy it in seconds. Really, it's quite a comfortable set-up! A ~25x scope opens up a whole world and has capabilities _way beyond_ a 10x bin.

The only circumstance in which I could imagine choosing to use a 10x bin regularly would be if my usual bird walks often placed me at _just_ the distance where 10x was needed over 8x. Maybe if I always walked the shoreline of sewage or fish hatchery ponds of precisely the size where small sandpipers or pipits were often lined up on the far shore _just outside_ my comfort limits for ID at 8x. In that case, getting closer is not possible, the additional magnification of a scope beyond 10x wouldn't be necessary, so carrying a 10x bin would be the most elegant solution. I think I would opt in that case for one of the 10x or 12x Canon image stabilized bins. The stabilization would be as, or more important, than the small increase in magnification over 8x.

--AP

P.S. If your interest in 10x is to justify buying another bin, make sure it is a good one for that job (i.e. get stabilized). Otherwise, I recommend forgoing 10x and instead getting something that is more fun, like Pentax 6.5x21 Papilio, or a 7 or 8x with different handling or optical personality than what you currently have. Do you already have a 8x20, 8x32, and 7 or 8x42 that you like for everything you do (i.e. with awe inspiring optical quality, handling, close focus etc)? If not, I recommend getting whichever of those formats you are missing before getting a 10x.

 

[A2GG]

I had a little time right before work today and quickly looked through a couple of 10x and I could see the shake right away. I've been using lower power bins for quite a while now and I think I just got so used to the calmer image. They still show some shake, but with the 10x it's def. enhanced.

I've decided I will continue to use my lower power bins with 8x being the highest and someday I'd like to get one of these super compact scopes that have become popular lately. I'm not ready for the scope at this point and with my shoulder issues I don't need any extra gear like that. When I am ready down the road I'll take a look at some of these very small scopes instead of a higher power binocular.

Thanks for all of the advice and comments and sorry if I didn't reply to any specific comments...I had no idea this thread would become so popular. But, please continue the conversation - it certainly is an interesting one.

 

[florken]

I had a little time right before work today and quickly looked through a couple of 10x and I could see the shake right away. I've been using lower power bins for quite a while now and I think I just got so used to the calmer image. They still show some shake, but with the 10x it's def. enhanced.

I've decided I will continue to use my lower power bins with 8x being the highest and someday I'd like to get one of these super compact scopes that have become popular lately. I'm not ready for the scope at this point and with my shoulder issues I don't need any extra gear like that. When I am ready down the road I'll take a look at some of these very small scopes instead of a higher power binocular.

Thanks for all of the advice and comments and sorry if I didn't reply to any specific comments...I had no idea this thread would become so popular. But, please continue the conversation - it certainly is an interesting one.

Before you make your final decision: I have small hands (like female hands small ) and I recently used a Swarovski EL 10x32 / Zeiss FL 8x32:

I have the FL 8x32 and used the EL 10x32 from somebody else - try to test the Swarovski 10x32, it has perfect ergonomics for my small hands and was a delight to use, I was able to hold them steady with 1 hand without any effort. With the FL 8x32 it works as well but I doubt it will work with the FL 10x32.

Swarovski and ergonomics - a class on its own

 

[ceasar]

I have a Nikon 10x32 EDG II. I was able to compare it with a Canon 10x42 IS at Cape May a couple of years ago for about 15 minutes. Comparing the two with the IS off and my elbows braced I really couldn't see much difference between them. The Canon has 1st rate optics and a nice flat field like the Nikon. With the IS on, the Canon was a different story. I could see just as well or better standing up using it as I could using my Nikon 10x32 EDG with my elbows braced.

I'm not going to get another 10x in any other size or price range. Mine has great glare control, long comfortable ER and large comfortable eye cups and a very smooth Focus. It also has the same FOV that the #1 rated Nikon 10x42 EDG in Allbinos has. I've been thinking about getting a Canon 12x36 IS or 15x50IS for a long time. I don't know if I ever will.

I don't use 10x often enough to worry about a larger exit pupil for evening birding.

Bob

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

I was never that interested in 10x bins for most of my birding career and have generally always used 7 or 8x because I like the wide field, steady image and depth of field. Then I tried some Canon 10x30IS. I didn't like the bins that much but the view with IS was something else. I then bought some 10x42 IS and have used them as my main binoculars for a year or so now. I've yet to find a situation in which they're not significantly better at getting me great views and IDs than conventional binoculars. I have some Nikon EDG 7x42s, which are great optically, but I don't use them much now. I expected to want to use them in places like rainforests but actually the 10x42 IS really comes into its own in that sort of situation, particularly where you're looking at birds in the high canopy where a scope wouldn't be practical but you need as much resolution as you can get hand held to ID the birds.

 

[Alexis Powell]

...someday I'd like to get one of these super compact scopes that have become popular lately. I'm not ready for the scope at this point and with my shoulder issues I don't need any extra gear like that...

Your shoulder issues are likely not the same as mine, but I thought I'd just mention another item that I _always_ use with my Nikon 50ED scope and tripod outfit--my lumbar pack. When I need a day pack, I almost always use a lumbar pack (I have several) instead of a back pack. No weight is borne on the shoulders.

With my ED50, I use an older version of this pack
http://mountainsmith.com/products/all-lumbar-packs/day.html
The scope goes into the pack, which has room for lots of other gear if needed, while my tripod drops head first into one of the water bottle pockets (which I pad by inserting a neoprene lens pocket) on the outside.

Another model that I really like for being especially lightweight, though it doesn't work quite as well for scope plus tripod carry because the water bottle pocket is smaller, is the Mountainsmith Daylite. It has been replaced with a very different version but the old type is still available
https://www.amazon.com/Mountainsmit...4485255&sr=8-1&keywords=mountainsmith+daylite

--AP