European Mountain Birds (1 Viewer)

[Owene]

I'm hoping in the next few years to try and see a bunch of European Mountain species.

Wallcreeper, Alpine Chough, Nutcracker, Alpine Accentor, Citril Finch, White Winged Snow Finch and Lammergeier being the main ones.

I've noticed that Naturetrek do a few Swiss plant and butterfly trips based in Wengen that have most of them on the trip lists ( except Wallcreeper but I'm hoping to try romania next year and Lammergeier being a little erratic and obviously introduced anyway) which crucially say that the trips will all be done using cable cars and rail. As a teacher none of the trips work for me date wise and they obviously aren't bird focused anyway (although I'd also love the butterflies) but I wondered if anyone had any experience of looking for these species in Switzerland using public transport and how realistic it would be and how easy it would be to just replicate it privately.

If anyone has any alternative locations that would also be great, I'm limited to school holidays

 

[pbjosh]

Switzerland does make it quite easy to get to alpine zones using public transit. Usually a train then a post bus which is coordinated with the trains to ferry you along from train station to trailheads or lift stations, and sometimes a ski lift or gondola or the like. However it is also probably cheaper to rent a car and self drive if you’re going to change locations a lot, public transit is expensive particularly for non residents who pay full price. Either self drive or public transit, it is definitely not a terribly low cost destination in either case.

Personally I don’t find the birding in the Swiss alps very exciting - lots of pastures, lots of cows and sheep, lots of managed forests, but I come from a perspective of California and South America, so there is little “wilderness” in Central Europe that I can get excited for.

That said everything is well organized and accessible and scenic and most of your species are readily seen. Snow finch in summer is tricky though, easier in winter at ski resorts! It’s the chickens and owls that are quite a bit harder here.

 

[Owene]

Thank you, yeah I'd imagine it's not cheap, I'm always a little nervous about hiring a car, especially for mountain driving but Switzerland is probably as safe a place as you're going to get.

 

[pbjosh]

The great danger in Switzerland is an impatient local tailgating a bit if you aren’t going just the speed limit It’s almost too safe hehe.

 

[kb57]

I've seen five of the seven species you list in the course of non-birding ski trips in France and Switzerland. Alpine chough are the easiest as they just hang around ski resorts and mountain restaurants (e.g. the intermediate cable car station restaurant near Schilthorn, Murren if you want really close-up views). Alpine accentor and snow finch are less predictable - I've seen the former above Wengen at a restaurant near the Jungfrau railway, and snow finches at the top of the Mannlichen cable car, although in summer I guess they'll be more dispersed. Nutcracker I've seen on only one occasion whilst skiing in (I think) Courchevel area in France, although in the past I've had great views in summer walking in the Tatras above Stary Smokovec in Slovakia. And Lammergeier...my son said 'there's an enormous bird about to fly over your head dad' as we sat in a mountain restaurant terrace near Flaine in France, as it flew low over the restaurant from behind me - not sure if you can count those yet though, it's on my life list from Nepal so it was easy to take a precautionary view and not add it to my year list. Never been lucky with citril finch, had some possibles whilst on a chairlift without binoculars, and tried and failed once to see wallcreeper in summer at a reputed site near Thunersee.
Getting them all in one trip would require more effort and travel, and in summer I guess trying to get up to higher altitudes and walking. Switzerland is really easy to get around by train and mountain railway / cable car / gondola, but as @pbjosh said, it's not cheap. About 7 years ago I drove from Newcastle to Champery (via North Shields - Amsterdam ferry) and agree driving there is really easy and safe with excellent roads - although you may have to negotiate the German autobahns to get there, which are a different experience...car hire is easy of course, but you'll be marked out as a foreigner with your AI (Appenzeller Innerhallen (?)) numberplate, a tiny canton which must have some sort of tax break for car rental companies, and a reputation for country bumpkins (it certainly amused my partner's cousin when we rocked up at his place near Neuchatel in our rental car).

 

[jurek]

It is very possible to see all these independently in Switzerland in one week, with luck in one weekend.

I would hire a car at the airport, base myself in 1-2 small hotels near Swiss national park and heavily rely on recent observations put publicly into ebird, observation.org and ornitho.ch. My understanding is that ornitho.ch requires you putting some observations yourself before using full functionality, but not sure.

In my experience, Alpine Chough, Nutcracker and Alpine Accentor are common. Citril Finch is also common, but you need to learn its 'tup' electronic call. Lammergeier is local, but Swiss National park is very good. I find Wallcreeper very local, and it is best to rely on reports from the same year if you want to certainly see one on a short visit. It is not rare, but not easily seen simply by hiking around. Its liking of breeding along vertical cliffs and gorges with dropping streams means it is rather tricky in the breeding season. Otherwise it disperses to diverse rocks and also walls. White Winged Snow Finch is also relatively tricky, being a very mobile bird and found at rather higher altitude than other species, but can be reliably seen in high plateaux of Swiss national park and also visits some ski restaurants. The same birds can be found in other areas of alpine Switzerland. In many places, ski lifts carry you comfortably to high altitude and some high mountain roads offer the same.

Swiss mountains are very beautiful, very well developed, very pricey and very full of local tourists. As others said - it is not a wilderness anymore. A car saves you time and perhaps money, because public transport is costly. Be prepared that many high mountain places have paid parking or prohibited driving by car, but a car is useful still.

My preference would be Pyrenees or perhaps mountains of Turkey, but the latter are not as safe as they used to be.

 

[3Italianbirders]

We have seen all the species you mention but never all in the same place. In the The Pyrenees we saw all but Wallcreeper (which is doable, but we weren't lucky) and obvs Nutcracker. The best views of Snowfinch were in Abruzzo in 2020, were we also had Alpine Accentor and other mountain species such as Water Pipit and Rock Bunting. Rock Thrush is also possible there. The Dolomites have all the species you mention and are probably not as expensive as Switzerland. We have been a few times in the past couple of years. Brief reports here and here. Jos has also been a couple of times recently, mostly for butterflies but he also saw most of the species you mention. The Dolomites also have excellent public transport, not so the other places... if you need more info do ask!

 

[opisska]

I saw Cough, Accentor and Snowfinch with my snowboard on last week in French Savoie Alpes. Coughs are common across Austria as well, yhe other two I have never seen outside of skiing in the Alpes. Nutracker only hiking above Chamonix.

 

[3Italianbirders]

As Jan and KB57 have said both Alpine Chough and Snowfinch are very easy to see in winter around mountain restaurants, less so in summer. I have had both every time I have gone skiing in the Dolomites. They are very confident too. I have seen Alpine Accentor on the Italian side of the Matterhorn again around the mountain restaurants. All these species become harder in summer.

PS for Jan: ditch the French Savoie and come skiing/snowboarding in the Dolomites!

 

[opisska]

I learned to ski going for years to Predazzo! Now I am exploring the other parts of Alps to see more of landscape. Also I have never seen s snowfinch in Italy, so ...

 

[3Italianbirders]

Also I have never seen s snowfinch in Italy, so ...

Top of the Kronplatz in snowy conditions. You can't go wrong! Or Gran Sasso in summer

 

[njlarsen]

Wallcreeper, Alpine Chough, Nutcracker, Alpine Accentor, Citril Finch, White Winged Snow Finch and Lammergeier being the main ones.

Five of these seven (including Wallcreeper) in the Pyrenees. Lots of other good birds in or near that area.

Niels

 

[Owene]

Thanks for all the advice everyone . I’ll look into dolomites and Pyrenees

How late in the year is good prior to dispersal?

As a teacher with a young child my travel opportunities during the winter are very limited as it’s essentially just the xmas break and that’s very child orientated. Shame we don’t ski 😀

 

[jurek]

Hi, these birds are resident, and summer holidays should be good.

See also: Switzerland 2022…and all that Jazz!

I just realized there is no Nutcrackers in the Pyrennees, but you have more than enough southern birds to compensate for them!

 

[3Italianbirders]

How late in the year is good prior to dispersal?

Both the Dolomites and the Pyrenees were in late June, which is school holidays for us, but not in the UK or other countries. Abruzzo was in early July.

 

[Owene]

Cool. I can do May and April which should be fine. I’m looking at a Romanian trip next year and I’ll see which mountain species I get there first

 

[Dortmundbirder]

Except of Lammergeier I have seen all of them on a single day hike at the "Westliche Karwendelspitze" in Germany. You start from Mittenwald through Forested areas with three-toed Woodpecker + Nutcracker, through more open areas with Ring Ouzel and Citril Finch and then higher up Alpine Chough and Accentor are pretty much garanteed and very good chances for Snow-finch and Ptarmigan. Wallcreeper can be sometimes difficult but breeds in the Dammkar. If you only want to focus on the high altitude species, you could also use a cable car to the mountain top.

Lammergeier sightings are also not rare in this area.

 

[Scridifer]

Cool. I can do May and April which should be fine. I’m looking at a Romanian trip next year and I’ll see which mountain species I get there first

We had Alpine Accentor along with Wallcreeper in the Carpathians a couple of years back.

Chris

 

[jurek]

Funny, it looks like foreign birders visiting Switzerland come to ski, and see some birds on the side.

If you decide to visit Switzerland, you could also hire a local birder to show you all seven targets in a day, for the fraction of a Naturetrek tour. Or, very likely, some local birder could do it for free, or give you exact places / a hiking route to do it yourself. I would tell you myself, but don't know surefire places, especially for the Wallcreeper.

 

[3Italianbirders]

Agree. Birding with locals is hard to beat. Not only for the detailed knowledge of places and species behaviour but also because of the added "human element" which is always a plus for us, besides coming in handy if you need info on places to go/stay/eat. And it's free (most of the time at least).