Gull ID - Ukraine (1 Viewer)

Hi! Help with identification please. Observation dates are in the name of the photo.
Ukraine, 2016-2020.

Hello Petro,

02.09.2016 seems like a 1st cycle, juvenile Caspian Gull to me: quite broad pale edges to the tertials and a straight, leaf shaped dark center (against 1cy YLG) and quite uniform greater coverts with little pattern

05.05 2017 (2) looks like a 2cy Caspian Gull imo: quite a pale underwing with nearly unpatternend axillaries and a white stripe formed by the greater underwing coverts (a feature?)

05.05.2017 looks like a 3 cy Caspian Gull imo. But its hard for me to exclude other species here, Herring Gull (by really dark eye at this age?)

05.06.2017 is a bird, I would ID as an adult Yellow legged Gull in SW-Germany (dark red eye-ring and red gape), but isnt there too much white on p10 (underside)?

08.03.2020 is a 2nd cy Caspian Gull (?): diamond shaped dark centers to the pale mantle, uniform dark washed greater coverts and a (nearly) unpatterned white head

14.04.2019 (2): two adult Herring Gulls, with the rear bird maybe showing some Caspian Gull traits (slender, parralell bill and some dark peppering in the pale iris, at least I get this impression on my screen)

14.04.2019 (3) 2cy Caspian Gull by very pale underwing and pure, "adult-white" head and body (alone? at this age)

14.04.2019 a Caspian x Herring gull hybrid by general Caspian Gull impression (including a pale head and body, bill shape), but a very white, barred tertial and a (n appearantly) mixture of different shape of the dark centers to the upperparts and scapularrs (again: a real feature?)

15.12.2018: a 1cy Caspian Gull, but is the dark, much patterned underwing a sign of hybridisation with Herring Gull ? Its easy to see Caspian Gulls with a much whiter underwing in NE-Germany. Therefore variation or a feature of hybrids?

16.06.2018: a 2cy Caspian Gull (aged by worn bleached juvenile primaries and much pattern on the grey scapulars and upperpart feathers, not many pure grey "adult ones)

23.04.2017: a 3cy Caspian Gull by small dark eye and a pure white head (many immature looking herring Gulls have dirtier, more patterned heads (?))

And know I hope like you for Lou and others to confirm or correct. Thanks!

Thanks for the answer and help! More photos of the bird: 05-06-2017. Is it really a Yellow legged Gull?

Hello Petro,

thanks for the new pictures!

As said, better wait for the experts to make a confident ID of your birds.

For the possible YLG:

• there is a broken but nearly complete black band on p5. Yes, this doesnt exclude a Herring Gull, but its a feature of YLG and Caspian Gull
• but there seems to be a long pale tongue on p10, therefore better for a Caspian Gull
• And yes, the bill shape seems good for a male-type Caspian Gull (thanks Lou!)
• But the red eyering and the red bill gape seems so good for a YLG

Conclusion? See my first sentence.

red downcurved gape and red orbital (extended in front of the eye) is also typical of cachinnans, Alex. Western Europeans just aren't used to breeding plumage Caspian Gulls, also concerning their bright yellow legs. I can only see Caspian Gulls in your pics, Petro, but the two pale eyed adult birds from 14.04.2019 on water can't really be identified - you'd need the priamary pattern. I suspect they are Caspian Gulls with some argentatus ancestry, not necessarily first generation hybrids.