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Old Wednesday 25th November 2015, 10:58   #1
CliveP
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UP 8x25 WP

No idea what this is like but since I just ordered one I hope to find out quite soon.

The 6.5x21 Papilio I got is so good I always had my eye on the UP 8x25 as a possibility but already having the Hawke Frontier PC with similar spec I never bothered but the other day the eyecup broke off the Frontier and so I just binned it rather than bothering Hawke again. I wanted to try something different in any case.

So I'm used to the narrowish 108m fov but since my Papilio has a similar APOV to this UP and is so sharp and to the edge then if this UP is similar I think it should be very good as it has 25mm objectives -compared to the 21mm of the Papilio- for some extra light gathering and what the Papilio achieves with the 21mm is almost unbelievable.

The UP is also Waterproof but it seems about as bulky as the Papilio so not very compact but I shall see.

I will be comparing it against my current 8x25 champion the Viking Vistron and if it beats that then I'm onto a winner.

Almost forgot. I'm also of course very interested to see how it compares to the Papilio II.

Last edited by CliveP : Wednesday 25th November 2015 at 19:44.
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Old Wednesday 25th November 2015, 17:41   #2
ceasar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CliveP View Post
No idea what this is like but since I just ordered one I hope to find out quite soon.

The 6.5x21 Papilio I got is so good I always had my eye on the UP 8x25 as a possibility but already having the Hawke Frontier PC with similar spec I never bothered but the other day the eyecup broke off the Frontier and so I just binned it rather than bothering Hawke again. I wanted to try something different in any case.

So I'm used to the narrowish 108m fov but since my Papilio has a similar APOV to this UP and is so sharp and to the edge then if this UP is similar I think it should be very good as it has 25mm objectives -compared to the 21mm of the Papilio- for some extra light gathering and what the Papilio achieves with the 21mm is almost unbelievable.

The UP is also Waterproof but it seems about as bulky as the Papilio so not very compact but I shall see.

I will be comparing it against my current 8x25 champion the Viking Vistron and if it beats that then I'm onto a winner.

Almost forgot. I'm also of course very interested to see how it compare to the Papilio II.



Nice to know you found a dealer who still carries Pentax.

Let us know how they turn out.

Bob
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Old Thursday 26th November 2015, 08:40   #3
PeterPS
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I have tried the UP 8x25 and liked its optics and mechanics are good, but I found it to be a bit too bulky for a compact.
I instead bought the much smaller Pentax UCF 8x21 and used it for a while but eventually sold it. After buying and trying some 60 compacts bins I currently own only one: Vixen Atrek 8x25---it's the only compact that ticks all my boxes and in particular handles as a very light single-hinge 8x32.

Peter

Last edited by PeterPS : Thursday 26th November 2015 at 08:49.
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Old Thursday 26th November 2015, 08:43   #4
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Nice to know you found a dealer who still carries Pentax
Not clear to me what you mean---there are many dealers carrying Pentax, including all the big ones....
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Old Thursday 26th November 2015, 10:17   #5
CliveP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pesto View Post
I have tried the UP 8x25 and liked its optics and mechanics are good, but I found it to be a bit too bulky for a compact.
I instead bought the much smaller Pentax UCF 8x21 and used it for a while but eventually sold it. After buying and trying some 60 compacts bins I currently own only one: Vixen Atrek 8x25---it's the only compact that ticks all my boxes and in particular handles as a very light single-hinge 8x32.

Peter
That's brilliant.

I'm sitting here with my Viking Vistron 8x25 (no longer made it seems) and I always said that the Vixen Atrek seemed to be the same bin and my thoughs have been the same as yours in that it's the first 8x25 I have come across that I thought was in any way how a good 8x25 should be but I certainly haven't tried as many as you. I see also the Atrek II has a field flatner and wider 7.5deg fov.

The bad news in your post would seem to be that it's possible the UP 8x25 will not be as good as I was hoping but I will try it anyhow as I see it has recently been updated to be fully multi coated and this is now printed on the bin whereas the forerunner did not seem to have all of these coatings and it's mainly the optics I am concerned with and won't really mind to much I think if it is a little large if the viewing is pleasing. I thought the 8x21 would be pushing things to much so I ruled that out.

If I really don't like it I was looking at the 9x28 which again seems to have been update to fully multicoated but the 50 deg APOV isn't very inticing although it's bound to be a much better bin than my 8x28 Bresser Everest.

I really like this Vistron 8x25 but although very different, my Papilio is somewhat the equal to it but the Vistron is more compact, basically flatter in a pocket due to it being a roof. I do like the Vistron/Atrek format and hope there will be a dielectric/ED version from somewhere at some stage although the Eschenbach 8x25 F may possibly be it?

Think I will need to keep the packing while I try the UP. I've got so many bins now that no point keeping anything that doesn't impress fully but I actually find these small bins useful for using around the house and keeping the larger "proper bins", for my outdoor trips whereas my original intention had been to find a good compact for cycling use (in my rucksack) but I now settle on my Kowa SV 8x32 as minimum for taking along outdoors if I want to have any kind of easy clear great view but I would probably still take one of my compacts to an event or such and it would currently be the Vistron. Meanwhile I have actually started using the Vistron daily from here as it even has some effectiveness on these dull days. I had been using my Hawke Sapphire 8x43 but I've now allocated that to outdoor use along with my Kowa SV and M7. Hope to get out with the Sapphire later today if the weather doesn't collapse and it's a bit iffy at the moment but nothing compared to what's coming so I may have to get out now while I can.

Probably get the UP tomorrow. Forecast is rain and storms

Last edited by CliveP : Thursday 26th November 2015 at 10:37.
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Old Thursday 26th November 2015, 11:00   #6
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Hi Clive:

Quote:
I see also the Atrek II has a field flatner and wider 7.5deg fov.
As you can imagine I also bought Atrek II 8x25 as well as 8x32, because of their enhanced specs, but I did not keep them: in all samples that I have tried the hinge was very loose and the focuser stiff to the point of making the bins almost unusable; also the focuser of the new series runs CCW, and while this is not very important I tend to prefer CW focusers like of the old Atrek. I bought my Atrek 8x25 for some 80$ and I think it's a great value---would be willing to pay much more for it.

Quote:
If I really don't like it I was looking at the 9x28
IMO the Pentax 9x32 is likely the best offer by Pentax---it weighs a bit less than 500g, so not a real compact but for 200$ you can hardly find anything more compact and better optically.

Quote:
the Eschenbach 8x25 F may possibly be it?
Once again as you can imagine I bought an Eschebach 8x25 ED too.....excellent specs on paper (likely the widest FoV of any compact) but I was disappointed: poor build quality and not so good optics, maybe I got a lemon....

Best,
Peter
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Old Thursday 26th November 2015, 11:28   #7
CliveP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pesto View Post
Hi Clive:



As you can imagine I also bought Atrek II 8x25 as well as 8x32, because of their enhanced specs, but I did not keep them: in all samples that I have tried the hinge was very loose and the focuser stiff to the point of making the bins almost unusable; also the focuser of the new series runs CCW, and while this is not very important I tend to prefer CW focusers like of the old Atrek. I bought my Atrek 8x25 for some 80$ and I think it's a great value---would be willing to pay much more for it.



IMO the Pentax 9x32 is likely the best offer by Pentax---it weighs a bit less than 500g, so not a real compact but for 200$ you can hardly find anything more compact and better optically.



Once again as you can imagine I bought an Eschebach 8x25 ED too.....excellent specs on paper (likely the widest FoV of any compact) but I was disappointed: poor build quality and not so good optics, maybe I got a lemon....

Best,
Peter
Thanks Pesto.

I got my Vistron for 28 delivered! with a 5 year warranty.

I have to say though that the Papilio II is very impressive and hence my trying the UP. The Vistron is a flat view to the edge but not as sharp as the Papilio which is actually incredibly so and the edges of everything are so clean and this is what really impressed me as well as it brightness. The Vistron has more colour but also can at times show more CA although it's not very bad and mine is not as sharp as the Papilio which I think is down to the tolerance on the focuser of the Vistron but in all other respects the Vistron is very good especially handling as you say and worn on a good strap even under a jacket you wouldn't even know/feel it was there and it handles much nicer than double hinge compacts for sure.

You've got me thinking more about the 9x28 now but it is twice the price of the UP 8x25.

This UP is only about $100 dollars so I'm thinking even if it's just good and I can at least make use of it from sitting here then I think it will be a keeper. I suppose I really need just to see it and see how it compares with the Vistron and Papilio.

I suppose also with having the Nikon M7 10x30 the 9x28 doesn't make much sense but then I suppose me buying another 8x25 doesn't make much sense either but I'm wanting some more of that Papilio type view only with something a bit more effective for general use and waterproffing is good and the UP seems to be that. That's my theory anyhow?

Thanks for all your help as it's very enlightening. I'm not so set on the Atrek II or Eschenback now. Seems with the UP I could still be heading in the right direction.
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Old Thursday 26th November 2015, 15:34   #8
ceasar
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Originally Posted by pesto View Post
Not clear to me what you mean---there are many dealers carrying Pentax, including all the big ones....
See the thread just below this one for more information about Pentax binoculars.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=315608

Bob
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Old Thursday 26th November 2015, 16:00   #9
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Bob:

The discussion in that thread is misleading. I have not checked carefully, but I believe all major retailers in the US and elsewhere carry Pentax binoculars. I am not sure why you believe they do not----just name a few big retailers that do not sell Pentax bins.

Happy Thanksgiving!
Peter.
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Old Thursday 26th November 2015, 17:53   #10
CliveP
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Nice day out with the Sapphire and returned to find the Pentax arrived so a next day which was good.

Unfortunately it was dark by then at 4.30pm and not really possible to tell a lot but they do seem quite sharp and to have good contrast and not be glare prone.

They are quite a little chunk though and you can feel the weight and the fov is crap seeming but I have to see if they are any better looking in the daytime tomorrow if we actually get any daylight with the storm closing in. The birds were so quiet when out today and seemed to be lying low. Maybe they know whats coming?

So so far not really liking these. Tomorrow is to work out why the Papilio is so good and these don't (at present) seem to be?

Not feeling very confident about this though. First impression is basically disappointing. They are probably ok for the price but don't seem to impress as much as the Papilio even though they have the larger objectives. Could be the 6.5x21 is Pentax's best offering.

Anyhow if I don't feel better about it then it's return time again. Better to get some money back and put it to something else.

I really don't like the flimsey click stop eyecups. The rubber on them is comfortable but they just seem like they won't last. The Papilio seems a better implementation although possibly similarly delicate.

More tomorrow then....
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Old Thursday 26th November 2015, 19:21   #11
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ok more tonight.

Just did a bit of comparing with the UP, Papilio, Vistron and Bresser 8x28.

A street sign about 100m off, street lamp light.

Papilio was the only one I could clearly read the text with.

Vistron had the best large view and is the best to handle.

UP maybe comes 3rd. It's pretty clear to see that the Papilio is brighter and sharper so I don't see any point in this UP except it being waterproof and if tomorrow it doesn't buck up then bye bye.

This shoudln't be happening. Obviously there is something better about the optics or coatings in the Papilio that they have left out of this UP and it must be something drastic as it is clear to see the UP optics are much larger yet don't perform as well as the smaller optic Papilio. WTF!

Very disappointing.
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Old Thursday 26th November 2015, 20:54   #12
ceasar
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Bob:

The discussion in that thread is misleading. I have not checked carefully, but I believe all major retailers in the US and elsewhere carry Pentax binoculars. I am not sure why you believe they do not----just name a few big retailers that do not sell Pentax bins.

Happy Thanksgiving!
Peter.

Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving to you Peter!

Since Ricoh took over Pentax its sport optics website has been a mish-mash of about 3 different ones (one of them only showed 8 binoculars) and it has been hard to tell which one is current.

However I see that Eagle Optics is selling Pentax again and they have a full line of them so it looks like the reports of their death have been exaggerated.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/pentax

They had been missing from Eagle Optics for several months. The excellent (and expensive) Pentax 8x32 ED seems to have been dropped but they do have an 8x43 and 10x43 ED and a 10x50ED priced in the $1000.00 range. As in the past they still have long ER and narrow FOVs.

At the same time Camera Land still only has them on special order. Maybe this will change soon.

I don't see any mention of Ricoh taking over for Pentax from either of those dealers.

Bob

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Old Friday 27th November 2015, 06:38   #13
CliveP
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Guys, enough about Pentax dealers please.

Be getting light (ish) in an hour or so and I don't think it's going to take me very long to discover that I don't need another lemon. Already got the Bresser 8x28 which might possible even be better than this UP. Certainly not as bulky or heavy.

Basically so far I've discovered the UP is bulkier than the Papilio, feels a lot heavier like double the weight and is not as bright or sharp.

It seems I'd be quite foolish to see anything good in that but it's getting a few more hours chance.

I used to have an 8x56 ED Hawke with the same fov but that looked brilliant although narrow. I had been kind of hoping in daylight that this might be similarly amazing -like the Papilio also- but I don't even think it's as good as the Hawke 8x25 Frontier I just binned.

I think so far this UP is a fail. Plain and simple but then I read the usual Amazon reviews etc were it's 5 stars. Well currently I would say generous 3. Distinctly average. Mediocre and I don't do that, even for a low price.

How it even belongs to the same series as the Papilio is now a mystery to me?

Just looking at the listed specs I see the Relative Brightness for the Papilio is 10.2
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.uk/en/pr...-products.html

and for the UP it is 9.6?
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.uk/en/pr...-products.html

This is what I have observed basically but it doesn't seem right? Surely it's a product of the magnification and objective size though I haven't checked that again.

Last edited by CliveP : Friday 27th November 2015 at 07:08.
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Old Friday 27th November 2015, 08:50   #14
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Ok I'm finished deliberating as it wasn't that hard.

The UP does improve as the daylight appears and you can see that the colour is quite a lot more prevalent with the UP than with the Papilio a bit like my old Hawke Sapphire compared to the more recent one I got but I still liked the old one and in this case I prefer the Papilio.

I recon it does come third behind my Papilio and Vistron and maybe a smidgen ahead of the Bresser so basically it's of no use to me at all and the return label has been printed.

Hopefully on a good news note I just bought a used RSPB 8x20 demo. At least it will be something very compact to replace my Hawke Frontier 8x25 and I don't expect to great things from it being only a 20mm objective but I am hoping at least that it will be better than this UP. I'm paying twice the price of the UP for a used demo so it had better be.

So folks there you have it. Leave the UP for the tourists, get the Paplio 6.5x
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