Vanguard Endeavour ED II 8x42 Report (1 Viewer)

bh46118 said:

Looks like an EDG or SV view with a much darker more yellow image. What would it take to correct those two things, and how much would it add to the price of the binocular? Imagine how many of these would be sold if the full SV view was there at this price point. That, and I would need to figure out how to kick my self in the ass for buying an SV!

Are we nearing a time when a $500 binocular can be competitively manufactured that is optically as good as the best the Alpha companies can produce at five times that much ? If that happens, then what lies ahead for the big three.

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Bill, I think it's going to be another 5-10 years before it's at the $500 price point.

When I was at Cabelas a couple of months ago, I really couldn't tell the difference between my Vortex Razor HD 12x50 and the Swaro 10x42 EL SV. They both looked identical in terms of performance but the feel of the Razor HD is what sold me...

The Razor cost 50% less than the Swaro.

(Yes, I know I can't tell *everything* about the Swaro from inside the store but in terms of that initial, first-impression, I was sold by the Vortex.)

cnick6 said:

Just to be clear, the transmission % (and graph) do not equate to overall brightness, correct? That graph is measuring individual color wavelengths...?

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Nick,

Perceived brightness is a very complex subject and pretty much impossible to judge from a transmission graph. Colour and contrast are probably just as important as the actual peak or total transmission for daylight viewing but the full brightness perception process involves many other components as well. High transmission and flat curves are generally a good thing but not the whole story. For instance any white light glare will dull the blues and reds particularly with a reduced perceived brightness. The EDII's contrast is excellent and I think the blues and reds look cleaner and brighter than some models I've tried with 'better' transmission profiles, though those may have the advantage well past sunset when your pupil diameter is maxed out.

David

These posts came from me a few days apart from each other. I don't have any more money now than I had then, but my tight ass now owns the SV. :-O
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=2968591#post2968591

"I dropped in to the new Gander Mountain in my area this last weekend to see what they had on hand in binoculars. Most models weren't worth picking up, but they did have the Monarch 5 10X42 and Swarovision 10X42 on hand. The store was well lit and had plenty of text to read at various distances. I was quite impressed with the Monarch at $329 but failed to see the magic that could make the Swarovski worth anything near $2500+. If I could have gone outside with them during daylight hours maybe I could have seen what makes them so special. In the last few years the gap between mid and upper tier optics has closed greatly, and I wonder how much closer it will get in the fairly near future."

"I happened by the the same store again today under some of the brightest, most pristine conditions possible and was able to take the EL 10x42 Swarovision outside for a test drive. I saw the same level of resolution of fine detail and light transmission that I see with my Minox BD 10x44 BP along with an easier, wider view, that is almost totally free of CA. The color, contrast, lack of all types of distortion made this the best image I've seen overall. If I had more money, I would buy a pair for sure."

I'm not saying however that the Vortex aren't as good as the Swaro. I haven't seen the Vortex, and if there's anything this thick skull is learning more and more, it's that if you ain't seen it first hand, you don't have an opinion.

cnick6 said:

(Yes, I know I can't tell *everything* about the Swaro from inside the store but in terms of that initial, first-impression, I was sold by the Vortex.)

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typo said:

Allbinos have posted a 10x42 review now. They seem to like it.

http://www.allbinos.com/index.php?test=lornetki&test_l=279

David

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Thanks for keeping this thread updated, David.

It looks like you would have an interesting comparison between the Vanguard Endeavor ED II 10x42 and your new Zen-Ray Prime HD 10x42.

Best wishes,

If my work schedule allows before the weather turns bitter, my curiosity will probably force me to get a pair of these to compare to the SV. If I think they can "hang" with one of the best, I will have no problem in telling it like I see it.

This review is very strange: the transmission graph is incredibly low -just 76% in the blue line and 80% in the green. The red line is the best.
The witheness isn't also very good and CA control not great for ED glass : "Low in the centre, a bit higher than medium on the edge " = 6.8/10.
But the distortion is incredible 10/10 ! :eek!:
The final score is also very hight for this class of transmission : 144.8/170.

Comparing with the Minox HG 10x43 BR : 132.2/170 with a better transmission : 86.9%.
I want to try and compare these Vanguard but I found this score surprising :smoke:

DadraFromFrance said:

I want to try and compare these Vanguard but I found this score surprising :smoke:

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Given Arek's scoring system, I'm not surprised at all, having used one for a few weeks now. It's remarkable, possibly unique by some measures and average by others. Individuals have different priorities and I know the ultra-flat view won't suite everyone, but I strongly suspect it's going to tick plenty of boxes for lot of users.

David

typo said:

Given Arek's scoring system, I'm not surprised at all, having used one for a few weeks now. It's remarkable, possibly unique by some measures and average by others. Individuals have different priorities and I know the ultra-flat view won't suite everyone, but I strongly suspect it's going to tick plenty of boxes for lot of users.

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What's interesting to me, as having owned both reviewed models and comparing them side-by-side, is the substantial difference in scores. I've commented to David privately that I believe the 8x32 model to actually produce a better image. By better, I mean a noticeable increase in sharpness. Color and brightness levels were identical to me.

I guess this is another example of how a higher score isn't necessarily reflected in how our eyes interpret a given sample image.

David, I wonder if the "flatness" of the image reduced the transmission percentage slightly and thus perhaps my overall experience... certainly one of the many trade-offs the designers have to contend with.

Nick,

Unfortunately I didn't try the 10x but my 8x has the highest resolution of any binocular I've tested. I've tried a lot of binoculars and seen nothing sharper. The two 8x I tried at BirdFair were incredibly sharp as well so it does strike me as odd that your 10x sounds a dud. One point that comes out of the two Allbinos' reviews is the 10x42 is even flatter than the 8x32. I've tried my 8x42 on a few people now and most love it, but a couple were convinced that there was a fault of some sort. No rolling ball as such, but some sort of visual disturbance . Do you think is might have been the actually flatness that was the problem?

It takes more lenses to produce a flat view and each will result in a small transmission loss. It doesn't look great on paper but I'd suggest the user experience is somewhat better. Something individuals need to try for themselves.

David

typo said:

Nick,

Unfortunately I didn't try the 10x but my 8x has the highest resolution of any binocular I've tested. I've tried a lot of binoculars and seen nothing sharper.

David

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Hi David,
what binocular can be equivalent to new endeavor in sharpness, or what is the direct competitors /Panorama ED, McKinley, Prime or even something better like SLC,SV,EDG,FL,HT...?/ I had Endeavor ED I, it was quite good, but it was on par maybe with M7 and a bit worse from BN Trino...

kestrel1 said:

Hi David,
what binocular can be equivalent to new endeavor in sharpness, or what is the direct competitors /Panorama ED, McKinley, Prime or even something better like SLC,SV,EDG,FL,HT...?/ I had Endeavor ED I, it was quite good, but it was on par maybe with M7 and a bit worse from BN Trino...

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Kestrel, I can say the ED II surpasses the Nikon M7 by quite a margin. Also, I would be bold enough to say that the ED II is very close to the Zeiss Conquest HD series. I checked out the Conquest HD 10x42 at Cabelas and it would be very close. (I would need to have both models side-by-side to know for sure.)

While the Conquest HD is very good, I believe the Vortex Razor HD and the Meopta (Cabela) EuroHD were noticeably better (albeit more expensive.)

Fantastic review typo, very informative!