Is the best roof in the world better optically than the best porro? (2 Viewers)

steve@37n84w · Aug 27, 2013

[email protected] said:
What does testing under the stars have to do with birding? There is absolutely no guarantee a good astro binocular is going to be a good birding binocular. You are looking for different things entirely. It doesn't take that long to tell if a binocular is better than another or not. A few hours under different situations and it is easy to see which one is better. You are more of amateur astronomer than a birder and you are looking for a different set of parameters when you judge your binoculars. You don't need a chart either to see which binocular shows you better detail on a bird either. Any birder can see the difference.

I do spend a lot of time under the stars but also manage to get a few hours of birding in very week and also observe wildlife at dusk several times a week. I'm sure of course you do much more but the point you missed (probably on purpose) is that unlike you I strive to be consistent and objective in my testing, on the other hand your bias is legendary among forum members. I'm really done with this line of conversation also.....as Jerry would say I'm just feeding the troll.

Steve

Theorist · Aug 27, 2013

This whole thread reflects poorly on the community.

Troubador · Aug 27, 2013

Theorist said:
This whole thread reflects poorly on the community.

Hi Theorist

Hope your bins purchase, discussed elsewhere goes well for you.

Would you like to say a little more about why this thread reflects poorly on the community?

I can think of several reasons why you might suggest this:

The thread doesn't stay on topic
People get argumentative
Dennis comes in for a lot of criticism
People respond to Dennis's posts when it might be more sensible to ignore them
etc
etc

Lee

Theorist · Aug 27, 2013

Troubador said:
Hi Theorist

Hope your bins purchase, discussed elsewhere goes well for you.

Would you like to say a little more about why this thread reflects poorly on the community?

I can think of several reasons why you might suggest this:

The thread doesn't stay on topic
People get argumentative
Dennis comes in for a lot of criticism
People respond to Dennis's posts when it might be more sensible to ignore them
etc
etc

Lee

You hit the nail on the head. Seems like a lot of arguing, personal insults, and straying off-topic.

Chosun Juan · Aug 27, 2013

Theorist said:
You hit the nail on the head. Seems like a lot of arguing, personal insults, and straying off-topic.

Said the pot to the kettle! |=\|

Troubador · Aug 27, 2013

Theorist said:
You hit the nail on the head. Seems like a lot of arguing, personal insults, and straying off-topic.

Theorist

One man's argument is another mans impassioned debate
One rarely sees actual personal insults on BF. By personal insults I mean calling someone a liar or a cheat or similar. Most of what you see are pointed criticisms which for sure the one being pointed at may find insulting. Rarely does this happen without being deserved. Referring to our very own Dennis, when you are a newcomer it may seem that he is dealt with quite harshly by other posters, but after a few months of his posts one understands the reasons for this. And when Dennis posts sensible material, which he does from time to time, he is listened to and not dismissed.
Straying off-topic is the stuff of life for this forum. A wide variety of posters brings a wide variety of points of view that perceive disparate connections in threads and enliven them by opening these up. For sure if you are wanting to simply follow the OP's question to a logical and quick conclusion, you may find the wandering off topic frustrating, but one learns an awful lot and gets entertained royally along the way.

I hope you stick around long enough to come to appreciate this forum's good points.

Lee

David Swain · Aug 27, 2013

Theorist said:
This whole thread reflects poorly on the community.

These threads are a very special place this community goes now and then, perhaps like a special ring of hell, or a play by Sartre starring us, Dennis, and a pair of bins that sometimes are, sometimes aren't the best in the world, with no exit from the argument. Think of it as penance for always being good.

o

:gn:

BruceH · Aug 27, 2013

[email protected] said:
How sure of a thing is the Zeiss HT 8x32? Is it coming out in 6 months or a year or two?

In reference to the 8X42 HT

[email protected] said:
No. I saw one on A-mart for $1500.00.

BruceH said:
............
You can wait, or get all of that right now in a 8X42 HT, if you can be happy with a 42 mm.

.................. Cameraland is currently offering a discount on a demo 8X42 HT, but not like the rare deal just ended on Astromart.

I noticed the Cameraland Zeiss 8X42 HT demo was no longer listed this morning.

Dennis ....... Did you order it?

Troubador · Aug 27, 2013

Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
How sure of a thing is the Zeiss HT 8x32? Is it coming out in 6 months or a year or two?

Yo Bruce

There will be no Zeiss HT 8x32. Really and truly.

Awaiting Dennis's reply re the 42 :eat:

Lee

kabsetz · Aug 27, 2013

Bruce,

He probably did. What else would explain his hysterical pumping of the 8x32 SV these past weeks than a well-concealed doubt that, just perhaps, there might be something even better out there?

K

Pileatus · Aug 27, 2013

Theorist said:
You hit the nail on the head. Seems like a lot of arguing, personal insults, and straying off-topic.

There are no facts available to answer the OP's question. None. So, like most optics threads, this thread contains little more than humorous and fruitless chest pounding. Enjoy the humor; that's all there is!

james holdsworth · Aug 27, 2013

If Dennis's point in these threads is the ''pump and dump'', then it is waste of his time. The effort that goes into pumping up his latest and greatest [and the subsequent ''bump'' in price] is out of whack with any result.

Dennis would probably make more if he got a paper route, left this place for a few weeks, and saved his customer tips.

denco@comcast.n · Aug 28, 2013

ceasar said:
[email protected] said:

What times are your eyes not the best test of brightness?

How did the brightness of the Swarovski, Zeiss Victory and Leica Ultravid 10 x 25 binoculars compare when you tested them?

Bob

PS: A clarification is needed here. I am not responding to Arthur's post highlighted in #298 as this thread indicates. I am responding to the comment Dennis made to Arthur's post in thread #298. I hope this clears up any confusion. (There appears to be a computer glitch on thread #298 that caused this.)

Click to expand...

"How did the brightness of the Swarovski, Zeiss Victory and Leica Ultravid 10 x 25 binoculars compare when you tested them?"

I have only compared the 8x20 size in all those models and the Swaro was easily the brightest and had the best optics. I would bet the 10x25's would be the same. I have tried ALOT of compacts and the Swaro's were the best and brightest I ever tried but at $700.00 I just don't think the value is there UNLESS you absolutely need the small size. Their price/performance ratio is just too lacking for me. i will stick with ONE binocular. The Swaro SV 8x32. The "Best Birding binocular in the World".

denco@comcast.n · Aug 28, 2013

Pileatus said:
Allow me to be the 300th post. Bravo, Dennis, you hit another thread out of the park.

PS
The answer to your original question is maybe, it depends and I don't know or care.

Thanks! I think my choice of topics is what makes my threads popular and controversial. I don't think too many people on Bird Forum are interested in the best binocular for under $50.00 although I don't begrudge that group of people. If that's all you can afford to spend to get into the hobby. Fine. But I think there are a large group of people on this forum who have very sophisticated tastes in optics and are interested in the higher end glass and how they compare. The porro versus roof debate always sparks some hot arguments with die hards on both sides.

denco@comcast.n · Aug 28, 2013

kabsetz said:
Bruce,

He probably did. What else would explain his hysterical pumping of the 8x32 SV these past weeks than a well-concealed doubt that, just perhaps, there might be something even better out there?

K

If there is a Zeiss 8x32 HT I doubt I would prefer it over the Swaro SV because it most likely wouldn't have the sharp edges.

denco@comcast.n · Aug 28, 2013

BruceH said:
In reference to the 8X42 HT

I noticed the Cameraland Zeiss 8X42 HT demo was no longer listed this morning.

Dennis ....... Did you order it?

HeHe!

denco@comcast.n · Aug 28, 2013

steve@37n84w said:
I do spend a lot of time under the stars but also manage to get a few hours of birding in very week and also observe wildlife at dusk several times a week. I'm sure of course you do much more but the point you missed (probably on purpose) is that unlike you I strive to be consistent and objective in my testing, on the other hand your bias is legendary among forum members. I'm really done with this line of conversation also.....as Jerry would say I'm just feeding the troll.

Steve

It is just your opinions seem to be largely based on you astro hobby rather than birding. Two different hobbies in my opinion and the optics needed for each are different. A star test doesn't tell me how good a bird is going to look through a pair of binoculars.

ceasar · Aug 28, 2013

[email protected] said:
ceasar said:

"How did the brightness of the Swarovski, Zeiss Victory and Leica Ultravid 10 x 25 binoculars compare when you tested them?"

I have only compared the 8x20 size in all those models and the Swaro was easily the brightest and had the best optics. I would bet the 10x25's would be the same. I have tried ALOT of compacts and the Swaro's were the best and brightest I ever tried but at $700.00 I just don't think the value is there UNLESS you absolutely need the small size. Their price/performance ratio is just too lacking for me. i will stick with ONE binocular. The Swaro SV 8x32. The "Best Birding binocular in the World".

Click to expand...

Can you tell us specifically when you compared the 8 x 20 Swarovskis with the Victory and the Ultravid and how you compared them? Perhaps you could quote from the notes you took when you made the comparisons?

As you know binocular manufacturers are constantly upgrading the coatings on their binoculars so the dates of these comparisons are important.

Bob

Chosun Juan · Aug 28, 2013

BruceH said:
..... I noticed the Cameraland Zeiss 8X42 HT demo was no longer listed this morning. - Dennis ....... Did you order it?

kabsetz said:
Bruce, He probably did. What else would explain his hysterical pumping of the 8x32 SV these past weeks than a well-concealed doubt that, just perhaps, there might be something even better out there?

LOL! :-O In all the circular "best in the world" :king: flip-flop, FL->EDG->SE->SV, blah, blah, DVD test, blah, blah, blah, :brains: and back and forth, round and round :scribe:, of Dennis' recent last Two Thousand Four Hundred and Eighty Seven posts ....... not once has there EVER been a mention of any WOW! with the 8x32SV .....

(

Just face it - the tiny 4mm exit pupil with 'only' 90%tr doesn't cut it in the brightness stakes under varied 'real' conditions for someone as young and hip :hippy: as Dennis. If this is a "well-concealed doubt" I hate to see a full fledged crisis of confidence !! |8.|

Now Dennis is off to the "greener pasture" of the x42 HT ....... but we all know that will end in tears :'D ...... Poor Doug! He's probably making out the return paperwork already ....... :frog:

That centre - oh, that centre - WOW! , but it's too big and heavy, and the edges are too soft ...... We know that this x42 HT is goin' under the bus! :gn:

Kudos to all those who have tried to 'reason' with Dennis ....... all in vain though I'm afraid ....... Looks like the torturing of Dennis' soul will continue until the release of the 8x32 HT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chosun :gh:

steve@37n84w · Aug 28, 2013

[email protected] said:
It is just your opinions seem to be largely based on you astro hobby rather than birding. Two different hobbies in my opinion and the optics needed for each are different. A star test doesn't tell me how good a bird is going to look through a pair of binoculars.

I actually spend more time observing wildlife during the day (through out the day but mostly in the late evening until total darkness) than I do under the night sky. As far as your statement that you need different optics that makes no sense at all to me. The optical qualities I desire most in an astronomy binocular are very good resolution (sharpness), contrast, and accurate color fidelity and since the optics for birding are different (according to you) I can't help but wonder which of the three qualities I mentioned aren't important in a birding binocular?

I do believe your statement that a star test isn't going to tell YOU much about how a binocular will perform in the daytime but to me and a lot of other forum members it will. Besides the obvious ease of determining resolution and contrast under the night sky a lot of us can even get a good idea of a binoculars warm (or not) color balance.

Steve

Is the best roof in the world better optically than the best porro? (2 Viewers)

Well-known member

Well-known member

Moderator

Well-known member

Given to Fly

Moderator

Well-known member

Avatar: Harris Hawk

Moderator

Well-known member

"Experientia Docet”

Consulting Biologist

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Given to Fly

Well-known member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread