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Best outfit for £400 +/- (1 Viewer)

M

mart46

Active member
As per the title, I'm allowed to spend up to £400 on my 1st scope, and ideally would be looking for a package with cover and fixed 30x wa eyepiece. Something on the small/portable side. I've considered the MM3, which comes in at just over £400, as well as some older Opticron models (i.e GS665). I also looked at the RSPB Harrier at Rainham Marshes today, also at a similar price.

Any advice and thoughts would be welcome.

Best, Martin
 
Hi Martin,

welcome to BF. Regarding your choice of a first scope, the MM3 is certainly a very nice and portable solution which does very well in tests (there was a comparison of 50mm scopes some years ago from some italian birders which was also linked in here and the MM3 came out on top).

I don't know the GS 665 although the ones currently on sale are the rest of the non-ed bodies - not sure how these are, probably ok for just watching without digiscoping but the resale value of these will not be high - there's currently one on ebay for 120 quid with cover and an old zoom EP. I'd consider that in a pinch and maybe replace the EP with something current.

In general I would look at used scopes too, I got my Kowa TSN-3 (the scope to have in the nineties) with a very nice tripod and an admittedly useless old zoom EP for 400€. I added some current EPs and am quite happy with it, although it's a bit larger than the MM3.

PS: Do you have a tripod? If not you might want to allocate some of your budget for that...

Regards,

Joachim
 
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Thanks for the reply. I've looked at the 'bay for scopes but there doesnt seem to be much about. Are there any 2nd hand dealers that might help?

Martin
 
Hi,

of course buying used may take a bit of patience - I found mine on german ebay classifieds - that would be gumtree in the uk I guess - but I would only consider a face to face transaction there. Also having a look into the classifieds section in this forum is probably a good idea.

PS: have you decided if you want an angled or straight scope?

Joachim
 
Hi,

the Fieldscope III ED is a great all around scope while still not too big and heavy (1.2kg with EP). Will probably beat the MM3 and not only due to the higher diameter...

Joachim
 
I would love to see a Nikon Fieldscope III vs Opticron MM3 60 mm shootout. I had a chance to compare the 50 mm versions and though they are in the same optical league I preferred the Opticron.

Another thing to keep in mind is that it is getting harder and harder to find Nikon eyepiece for the Fieldscope series.

Just as a point of reference, here is a pic I took with the MM3 60 mm and my Iphone yesterday.
 

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Hi,

that fits what the italian birders found in the 50mm shooutout - optically equal but the Opticron is a lot cheaper. In a shootout between the 60mm FS III ED and MM3 variants the Opticron would also gain a point for lower weight (unlike at 50mm). The optics would be interesting indeed, the Nikon wins at zoom range as there is a zoom up to 60x available (and it is quite usable at that magnification - see the betterviewdesired review).

But in this comparison of an MM3 in 50mm and the 60mm Fieldscope, the latter has the edge with 10mm more diameter or 45% more objective area or light... and it can go up to 60x with the big zoom.
Plus the used example is a hundred quid cheaper than a new MM3-50 with a 30x EP.

I have doubts if a 50mm scope is going to work as the only scope you need in the majority of cases. And even the 60mm MM3 has a quite short focal length and goes only up to 45x with the nice zoom EPs (fixed magnification EPs are available up to 57x for the MM3-50 and 72x for the MM3-60).

Regarding the Nikon FS EPs, yes, they might get scarce in the future if the FS 50 gets axed. Currently they are still available at Uttings and if one buys the Fieldscope it might be a good idea to save up for the big zoom:

http://www.uttings.co.uk/p107430-ni...d50-ediii-iii-and-ed82-bdb90075/#.VojhHl6YN0w

PS: LCE also has the Fieldscope ED 60 with a straight body and 20x EP for 269 quid... if you prefer a straight. I like angled better as I'm tall and it's hard to get a tripod high enough to use a straight scope without extending the column (which makes things more wobbly). Also angled is a lot better to use with multiple people as it's easy to bend down a bit to look into an angled scope - not so with a straight one.

http://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Used/Nikon-FIELDSCOPE-ED60+20X-(STRAIGHT)_130691.html

Regards,

Joachim
 
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Hi Martin

if you're interested I have a Pentax PF65EDA (mark 1 version), in pretty much mint condition, complete with original box and Pentax stay on case. Can supply that with a choice of lenses for a negotiable price circa £250. As the scope takes standard astro lenses it offers loads of choice of alternative eyepieces. PM me if interested.

Regards

John
 
Hi John, thanks for the offer. I'll have a think.

As a photographer, I've always preferred prime lenses with lots of glass! And so I'm now beginning to wonder if I might be happier going with a larger objective lens, say 60mm, 70mm or even 80mm (all ED)? I know this bumps up the price! I'm not to fussed if the the weight creeps up an bit, however, there is so much choice it's becoming confusing !!
 
Hi,

the Pentax would also be a good idea, especially due to the fact that it takes astro EPs which gives you lots of options (although it might not focus to infinity with all).

As for a larger lens - larger is amost always better (in hot conditions with plenty of light a smaller scope might have an advantage). I think 60-80mm is about what you need for general use. More is for seawatching and/or hardcore digiscoping, smaller ones when you usually have to go on very long hike to see the birds or as a 2nd scope if you have one of the big cannons....

Regarding the weight - most of it is going to be the tripod anyways. My Kowa 77mm weights 1.6 kg with EP (which is not too heavy for a 77mm scope), the light Velbon carbon tripod with a not too great (but light) head, quick release plate and a backpack mount weights 2.6 kg.

So the whole package is 4.2kg which is fine for me when worn like a backpack. The backpack also has some space for a book, water and a snack, a 2nd EP and a plastic bag in case of rain (the TSN-3 is not waterproof).

Joachim
 
Well, I'm still researching (half the fun, I think!). What are peoples thoughts to the following:

Nikon Prostaff 5 82mm Angled Fieldscope, 20-60x Eyepiece is with my budget. I see the blurb talks of "entry level" optics, but are they any good?

I also like the Opticron IS 60 ED WP Angled Spotting Scope with HR2 16-48x Eyepiece, but again slightly put off by the "those on a budget" reference. It makes the 'scope seem cheap. I cant find much from a user point of view on this one.

I suppose I come back to whether I'd be happy with the MM3 50mm as my only 'scope?
 
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Mart,

I enjoy using the MM3 50 mm and do use it for practically everything. I find the portability far outweighs the limited magnification range. For the type of birding I do and the locations that I do it in, if I can't see something at 36x then I most likely wouldn't be able to see it at 45x or 60x.

Having said that, a good compromise would be the MM3 60 mm. I am curious why you would discount that configuration of that model. It is more expensive than the 50 mm but if you want a good compromise between portability and magnification then the MM3 60 would be the scope. I posted a bunch more pics that I took with it and my Iphone over in the digiscoping forum. It might give you some idea of how practical and high performing it is.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=313495

One thing to keep in mind is that those images were all taken with the HDF 24x wide angle eyepiece. I rarely use the HDF zoom only because I find that 24x suits my needs just fine.
 
I'd love the MM3 60mm, however with the case and an ep, it takes me well over by allowed budget. Having done lots of reading, I am leaning towards the MM3 50mm, and in the first instance I'll probable get a fixed 20x ep. Maybe later I'll pick up the HDF zoom ep.

Thanks for the help Frank, and the pictures look good. Digiscoping is next - I have a couple of Fuji X-mount camera's as well as a great point and shoot (canon S95). Let me buy a 'scope first :)
 
Gotcha,

I think you will enjoy using the MM3 50...if you decide to go that route. Unless you are trying to ID shorebirds at a few hundred yards then I think you will be good to go with your setup.
 
Well. its done. Just ordered the MM3 50mm, cover and the HR 20WA fixed ep. I'll see how that goes, and maybe in a few months look to pick up a 13-39x zoom.
 
Hi,

congratulations on a great little scope, certainly the best of the new options. I hope you enjoy great views with it.

Joachim
 
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