7D2 vs 1D4 (1 Viewer)

Tim Taylor · May 21, 2015

I have the 1D4 and I had the orginal 7D. Does anyone have the 1D4 and 7D2 and feel up to comparing AF and noise? The thing I hated above all else about the 7D was noise in dark areas which showed a lot if I tried boosting the exposure. The thing I like least about the 1D4 is the lack of detail if I have to do a massive crop (frequent for me!). AF is better on the 1D4 than the original 7D but perhaps it's better then either on the 7D2.

Thanks

Tim

johnf3f · May 21, 2015

I don't own a 7D2 but I do know a few people who do own both and they prefer the 1D4, however I do sometimes catch them using their 7D2's so they must be close.
Having tried a few 7D2 cameras I prefer the 1D4 but they are both great cameras - just with different strengths and weaknesses.

If you are finding that the 1D4 is not giving the required detail then you are probably either cropping too far, using a lens of inadequate quality or a lens that is too short. I don't think a 7D2 is going to help as it sounds like a lens problem to me, especially if you are after small birds. If you are after small birds then focal length is everything. Even with my 800mm I don't like shooting beyond 10/11 yards on Kingfisher size birds.

Unfortunately a longer lens is probably the most expensive option! Probably not much help but when I had both the 1D4 and 1DX (while I was trying to sell the 1D4) I did find a "reach"improvement with the 1DX. This is counter intuitive due to it's sparsely populated sensor but the 1DX files will take more cropping before they fall apart - the detail resolution is very good on the 1DX.

Tim Taylor · May 22, 2015

Hi John, thanks for your reply. I have a 600mm f4 mk1 and choice of the mk3 teleconverters.

I've been frustrated by photographing hobbies eating small prey recently - more pixels on the bird/prey would have been great. Faster acquisition of focus would have been great too. No point having these pixels though if they are noisy pixels as to get the shutter speed I often need to shoot at ISO 800.

Hope that explains things a bit better.

johnf3f · May 22, 2015

Up until late 2013 that was the exact combination that I used and very good it is too! I love you point about often having to shoot at 800 ISO - I love shooting at ISO's that low.
Given your current camera and lens I don't think that you would gain much reach with the 7D2 though I am sure there would be a small gain - but would it be enough to be worth it? From what users tell me the 7D2 has about a 1 stop advantage in the ISO department over the 7D so that's a pretty good improvement.
I haven't seen any going at sensible money recently but keep an eye out for the Canon 800 F5.6 L IS, I picked up mine for about 1500 quid more than I sold my 600 F4 L IS Mk1. The 800 is a newer design with improved 4 stop IS (which I don't use) and is a significantly sharper lens. It is also 800+ grams lighter - which is VERY welcome! Against that it is only OK with the 1.4 extender and the 2 x is manual/live view focus as well as taking an IQ hit. Overall I find it a significantly better lens though the 600 Mk1 is FAR from shabby!
As you already have top quality gear I don't think there is anything that will give you a major advantage - you are pretty close to as good as it gets! The 600 F4 L IS Mk2 or the 800 F5.6 L IS would help as would a 1DX or possibly a 7D2 but the differences will not be large and the upgrades expensive.
Not much help sorry!

Tim Taylor · May 22, 2015

Thanks John. I suspect the only way to find out will be to buy one and see how it goes. I don't have a second body and it might be useful.

Malcolm Stewart · May 22, 2015

A friend at the local bird reserve has an EF 600 F4L IS*, and both a 7D2 & a 1DX. During recent meetings, I've noticed that he's using the 7D2 more often than his 1DX. I think he nearly always has an extender between the 600 and whatever body he's using. He gets fantastic photographs.

I have a 1D4 and 7D, & EF 500 F4 L IS, so can't comment from my own experience.

* not sure if it's a Mk I or Mk II.

Tim Taylor · May 23, 2015

Having just got a series of tiny photos of a marsh harrier food pass despite 840mm of glass and a 1.3x crop, the appeal of a 1.6 crop and all those extra pixels is even more appealing. All the guys I met at my local reserve today were using the 7D2 bar one who had the Nikon 810. I can understand why your friend may be favouring his 7D2 Malcolm. I'll order one tonight.

Paul Jarvis · May 23, 2015

Will be good to hear your findings Tim.

Dave Williams · May 24, 2015

Good luck with your choice Tim. The 7D2 represents excellent value for money.
The interesting aspect of your observation about everyone using 7D2's should be more a question of what body they were using before and why did they choose the 7D2. I'm not sure that 5d and 1D owners would buy a 7D2 for reach because in my opinion the gain is not all it's cracked up to be.

Tim Taylor · May 24, 2015

I'll report back. I've attached an example of the sort of shot I'm getting at the moment with pre and post crop/processing. Clearly I can't control where this sort of event happens and getting more detail would be great. If I don't get it or if the camera doesn't perform for other reasons, I'll move it on.

Dave Williams · May 24, 2015

That's a great action capture however the crop doesn't work out too well if you are close to the computer screen but if you sit back a foot or two it looks more than acceptable.

Tim Taylor · May 24, 2015

Just rough and ready processing, no NR and too much sharpening! Also not much detail to work with in the first place. I dare say Roy could get a lot more out of it.

Here's a slightly better version.

johnf3f · May 24, 2015

Looking at your images Tim it would seem to me that the problem is range. There is an awful lot of atmosphere between you and your subjects and unless is is an exceptionally clear day I don't think that any lens/camera will get you detailed images that far away.
I normally limit my shots to 50 yards even on clear days as you can rarely get good detail beyond that range in the UK - though there are odd days when you can.
The attached (unedited) is about as far as I shoot and this was under ideal conditions.
I don't know if you can access the exif data but it was shot with a 1Dx and a Canon 800 F5.6 L IS - the conditions were about as good as it gets!

Tim Taylor · May 25, 2015

If I limited my shots to 50 yards, I'd miss an awful lot of interesting stuff that I like to record and share with others. I totally agree with your analysis in terms of getting pixel perfect photographs but that's not my thing. Anyway, the camera is ordered and we'll see if it helps. I wanted another camera body in any case.

David Whitaker · May 25, 2015

Tim Taylor said:
Just rough and ready processing, no NR and too much sharpening! Also not much detail to work with in the first place. I dare say Roy could get a lot more out of it.

Here's a slightly better version.

I think that atmospheric diffraction, 'thick air' is at play here, so you are never going to get a sharp picture however much you process the image. On the very few days that we have seen the sun in the north this month there has always been a cold east wind blowing over the sun warmed earth or water. The resulting haze just destroys any hope of sharp pictures. The more glass that you pile on to the front of the camera the worse things get. Work very early and late in the day to avoid the worst conditions before the radiant heat from the sun gets to work. Not all of the 7D2's focusing problems are human!

the black fox · May 25, 2015

I have been having distance shots problems with my sigma 150-600 and 70d to the point that I,m ready to launch the camera ,it's not the lens as I have no problems with my 1d3 with it , sat on the fence over getting a 7d2 if it suffers the same sensor cramming effect ,really frustrating

johnf3f · May 25, 2015

When I mentioned 50 yds that was for Large birds only (Geese etc) for songbirds and the like make that 15 yds or better still 6 to 10 yds.
Ah the joys of Bird photography!

mr_birdman · May 27, 2015

Unfortunately if you take distant shots then you won't get very high quality images. They'll be fine to see on a web screen, but probably not much more.
The closer you can get the better the image quality you will have. Sadly that's the way the cookie crumbles.
For the harrier food pass, probably not much you could have done anyway, I am certain the harriers will not be anywhere close to you if you are in their field. It's more of an opportunity that you had to capitalize on at the time.

I prefer to predominantly shoot raptors and will try and go to places they frequent and still try to get close by different means. That is, vehicle as hide, ghillie suit and sit still (or slowly approach) or use a hide. I've seen many great opportunities too, but I usually take a happy snap for later. It's nice to have some memory.

Tim Taylor · May 27, 2015

Back to the original question - is anyone able to compare AF and noise between 1D4 and 7D2 please?

Thanks.

cueball · May 28, 2015

First post as I'm doing the same research and considering these cameras... Are you wanting something like this for a noise comparison: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1364218

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