• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Why do midrange binoculars exist? (1 Viewer)

Ok not sure if a survey can be set up but I believe it is needed at this stage: if you didnt have any binocular and were given $2500 that you are forced to spend, what of the following would you do:

A- Spend the full amount in one binocular (best you can buy).
B- Spend the full amount in more than one binocular (i. e. 2 cheaper binoculars) .
C-Spend half the amount in one binocular and the other half in non optic related products.
 
Not so long ago I would have gone for a single pair of mega-bins but given the rules of the survey I would go for a pair of 42s and a pair of 32s.

Lee
 
Ok not sure if a survey can be set up but I believe it is needed at this stage: if you didnt have any binocular and were given $2500 that you are forced to spend, what of the following would you do:

A- Spend the full amount in one binocular (best you can buy).
B- Spend the full amount in more than one binocular (i. e. 2 cheaper binoculars) .
C-Spend half the amount in one binocular and the other half in non optic related products.
No question about it.
Buy a Swarovision 10X50 and stay in shape.
 
Tenex, Eric, Thank you for your post 1, I read it with great pleasure and I like your philosophy. A 500 dollar binocular can perform very well, but I have studied now for quite some time the history of binoculars and I have investigated many. Top quality always proves itself. A 5 dollar hammer will do the job, but some 50 dollar hammers feel so much better to work with. I think the same applies to binoculars.
Now I think that also user psychology plays a role. A joke in our house was: judge a men's Swiss army knife and he will come at you and hit you. We (and I am not different) are inclined to idealise an instrument we like and comparison with better ones then may hit us.
A bit silly but that can sometimes occur.
Lots of succes with your investigation.
Gijs van Ginkel


I have been meaning to reply to this, having bought one of the original Hart hammers back in the 80's at about $60 in 1980 dollars, it turned out to be no improvement over my $14 Plumb or bell face Stanley. Speed, accuracy or comfort didn't change, I just looked cool using it.
 
No question about it.
Buy a Swarovision 10X50 and stay in shape.
Ditto. Pileatus, thanks for the tip on the 10x50 Swarovision. That is the best binocular I have ever looked through and it is my main birding binocular now. I still have the 8x32 Swarovision but I use the 10x50 more. It is a superb binocular. I could get by with just the 10x50 SV. I bought it on the basis of your review and have been very happy with it. I trust your reviews more than anybodies on Bird Forum. I have decided for me I would rather have one alpha binocular than several midlevel or low end binoculars. Why not have a great view every time you use it. I know every time I use it I am getting the best possible view of the bird. I would rather have the 100% view afforded by the alpha instead of the 90% view afforded by the midrange.
 
Last edited:
A couple of years ago I would go for B, this summer I would go for A or C, now I would go for D (spend them elsewhere or keep them for harder times). And that because I now own more binoculars than I need.
 
Ok not sure if a survey can be set up but I believe it is needed at this stage: if you didnt have any binocular and were given $2500 that you are forced to spend, what of the following would you do:

A- Spend the full amount in one binocular (best you can buy).
B- Spend the full amount in more than one binocular (i. e. 2 cheaper binoculars) .
C-Spend half the amount in one binocular and the other half in non optic related products.

With that kind of money and considering the image quality available under $1000 I would certainly be a B.

Heck I could buy multiple excellent binoculars and a good spotting scope with that kind of money. ;)
 
Optics are not the long pole in the tent when determining binocular quality. It is mechanical quality that rules.
Good optics won't save the day if the central hinge is loose or the focuser is wonky. We don't pay up for alphas because of some minutely better FoV or light transmission, we pay because we expect them to work well and for a long time. That is only possible if the mechanicals are both well designed and well built.
Yet binocular marketing never even mentions mechanical aspects. The focus is always on the optics and the view, elements which differentiate the least among the various offerings.
This sends a message imho, that the suppliers don't really think mechanicals matter. The various mid range suppliers seem to be assemblers at best, if not purely marketing vehicles. Presumably their marketing reflects their investment priorities. Longevity does not seem to be one of them.

Indeed, innovations trickling down from the top tier to second-tier to mid-priced roofs have enabled manufacturers to increase the quality of optics in the second-tier and mid-priced ranges, but what separates the men from the boys is the robustness of the binoculars in the top tier.

OTOH, not every birder is hard on their binoculars, and with reasonable care, a second-tier or even a good quality mid-priced roof could last decades. I've owned porros from the 1970s and 1980s that were still in great shape in the 21st century.

The robust mechanics of alphas are overkill for many birders and only become critical in extreme conditions or if the user accidentally drops the bins. And no-one is going to let their binoculars fall in the water to six meters and be able to retrieve them unless it's a 19-ft deep pond and they jump in to fish it out in the allotted time. So there's some "hype" in alpha marketing.

Plus, as we saw with the Conquest HD extreme test video, it could take buckshot up close and personal, get dragged on a gravel road from the back of a truck, and then get run over by that truck and still keep working, so robustness is no longer the exclusive domain of the top tier. Those for whom that quality is of great importance now have cheaper alternatives.

And though top o' the line, built-like-a-tank Swaros cost $2,600, they are still hit and miss when it comes to wonky focusers. So while what you've written is still generally true, there are exceptions to the rule, and it's those exceptions that have some birders wondering if they really need to fork over $2,600 for that extra robustness to get a bin that is maybe 5% better optically, if that.

I applaud the expansion of the second-tier because $1K is already a lot for many people to spend on a pair of binoculars, but if those features are important enough to them, they are at least within reach, and if not, they have a plethora of mid-range binoculars to chose from, and though not as mechanically robust as the top-tier or second-tier lines, many still put up a very respectable image, which is good news for birders on a budget.

Brock
 
Last edited:
It's all subjective, personal, and absolutely impossible to give advice on optics to someone else. You simply MUST try each binocular for yourself, and even after buying one, your opinion of it may change as you continue to use it over time and in new and various conditions.
 
Ok not sure if a survey can be set up but I believe it is needed at this stage: if you didnt have any binocular and were given $2500 that you are forced to spend, what of the following would you do:

A- Spend the full amount in one binocular (best you can buy).
B- Spend the full amount in more than one binocular (i. e. 2 cheaper binoculars) .
C-Spend half the amount in one binocular and the other half in non optic related products.

This is a hobby. And it's a pretty sensible one in the scheme of things with a very narrow price band. Wives, husbands and lovers should be greatful.

....there is no $250,000 super alpha with a further 1% increase in performance....unlike hifi. Otherwise, I guarantee, there would be some on here with them. There is no hand made grand complication Patek Phillipe which took three years to hand build, weighs a hundred grams and costs a million bucks.

Wrist watches, headphones, motorcycles, cycling, hi fi, R/C jets, rockets, horses, boats, sailing, virtually any musical instrument - all interests and hobbies that many are obsessed with, spend time and potentially mega..mega money on. Even photography and amateur astronomy are cheap in this company.

We are on the Amish Paradise side of things around here where it all peters out at a couple of thousand bucks for a handheld 'Alpha'. Maybe that's what I like about it :-O

Just my thoughts
Rathaus
 
I suppose one answer is that you can spend more on your main pair, but have a couple of nice mid-range pairs in other magnifications, or maybe for your glove box.
 
If a person can perceive no difference between a $2500 so-called alpha and their $300 bin then I say they, too, enjoy an alpha-view and are, therefore, alpha owners. If they see a difference but do not value that difference then they are simply expressing their personal notion of economic value. I'm frugal in many ways but I perceive and value the difference and I'm willing and capable to pay for it. I think a lot of people see the differences, want the optic but aren't willing or capable to spend the cash. So be it. That's why mid-range binoculars exist...for those who want to purchase them. B :)

Thank you, that's really well put.

I don't mean to have stretched this thread out past its usefulness. I think I just got rattled by some of the replies and tried to give people the argument they seemed to want. What I meant to say was rather simple: the B3 strikes me as falling into a range that's neither cheap enough nor good enough to be interesting. Which is an opinion, but one I'm entitled to. And the story told on its website to make it sound interesting isn't supported by its actual (especially mechanical) quality. Which seems pretty clear. If negative reviews are unwelcome here, that should be clearly stated somewhere. That's all. Thanks for listening.
 
Eric,
You're review of the Maven bino is welcome and useful.
There were only a couple of reviews before yours, so more
user reviews and perspectives are always helpful. All types
of reviews are welcome here and BF is a great resource for
user reviews.

I don't think anyone was bothered by your review of the B3, but
instead it was the broader comments about mid priced optics.

p.s. You have a right to your opinion and others have the right to disagree.
The topic is a bit controversial; suggesting to people that they should spend
more on top gear (any type of gear) will always ruffle some feathers.
 
Last edited:
I think GG summed it up well, you were certainly entitled to an opinion, and your actual review of the glass I have no problem with. But it was the broader brush stroke painting all mid level the same. The Conquest HD is upper mid level, the Zen Prime is lower mid level, both offer an outstanding value in my opinion.

Your opinion and review should be and I believe are, valued just as much as the others, all added together to get some educated idea of what fits your needs
 
Thank you, that's really well put.

I don't mean to have stretched this thread out past its usefulness. I think I just got rattled by some of the replies and tried to give people the argument they seemed to want. What I meant to say was rather simple: the B3 strikes me as falling into a range that's neither cheap enough nor good enough to be interesting. Which is an opinion, but one I'm entitled to. And the story told on its website to make it sound interesting isn't supported by its actual (especially mechanical) quality. Which seems pretty clear. If negative reviews are unwelcome here, that should be clearly stated somewhere. That's all. Thanks for listening.

Tenex:

This thread was “stretched passed its usefulness” before we got to the end of the first page; it is a veritable textbook model of psychological issues. Reading all the posts, with a tally-counter in hand, one can see that the SAME logic has been used a number of times. Yet, the purpose of threads on a bino forum is rarely about usefulness. They’re about everyone having an opportunity to express their opinion; often . . . MANY times on the same topic.

There is a saying in business that insanity is: doing the same thing repeatedly while expecting different results. I wouldn’t necessarily call that “insanity.” However, there is little doubt we have “kicked this dead horse” until his bones have been turned to powder!

Besides, we all know the best binocular is the one . . . I’m using . . . today! Ouch, I drilled a hole all the way through my cheek, this time. :t::cat:

Cheers,

Bill
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 8 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top