Requirements for compact digiscoping camera ? (1 Viewer)

As a newbie on digiscoping, with ipone 4 and the kowa adapter, I would like better photos thus needing a better camera. I want a compact weatherproof camera but couldn't find any good one's.

So i thought that if nobody speaks his/hers mind the camera manufacturers will never make a good digiscoping compact camera. Well, this is an attempt to start a "compilation" of requirement, and I strongly hope you will chime in, if you are interested in this type of product, so the list & thread gets better, maybe the info will reach the manufacturers ears in some peculiar way :t:

This thread is about a compact camera intended to be used with some kind of adapter over/on the eyepiece mounted on the scope.

DESIGN
- The camera needs to be “fairly” small & light, so it is easy to bring and not getting the scope so heavy at the back.
- At least weatherproof to withstand fogging due to rain and heat & cold/snow.
- Standard thread to mount camera on tripod head.
- No moving parts in the camera during exposure, except maybe lens movement for focusing.
- Possibility to put an UV-filter or similar in front of objective to reduce risk of getting scratches on the objective, while using it as an ordinary camera (not on scope).
- Powered by AA-batteries, alkalines 1,5V and rechargeable ones 1,2V, to reduce risk of being out of power.
- At least usb-cable connection. Etc etc


OPTICS
- Optical zooming 3x, to reduce vignetting, often needed. Possibility to store preset mode for zooming to quickly get rid of vignetting.
- Internal focusing, so no external lens moving, good to know where the objective surface is when you need to make your own adapter.
- Some kind of image stabilizer function would be nice.


IMAGE
- Raw- & JPEG-format is needed.
- Resolution at least 14 Mpixlar should be feasible today

FOCUS
- Autofocus still function when camera mounted on scope. Possibility to shut off autofocus. Possibility to quickly lock autofocus so you can focus with scope focus knob by looking at the camera live screen, and then when image is in focus as good as it gets, then release autofocus again. I am not clear how this should be done, like if you have the scope focused at 10 meters, and then you see a bird at 100 meters that you want to take a photo of ?

If it is too complicated to remove camera, look & refocuse the scope, put the camera back, going to autofocus, take the shot and it takes too long time the bird is gone. I guess with, a scope focused at 10m , and then pointed at a bird at 100m, the scope is not refocused, the camera autofocus can´t get a focused image.

Maybe if it was possible to lock camera focus at some preset distances, of user choice, that could help, like if the scope is focused at 10 m, I see a bird at 130 m, I estimate the distance to 100 m, I choose preset focus distance to 100 m and lock it there, I then use the scopes focuser & image on camera live viewer to get as god as it get focused image of the bird, and then release autofocus, the camera have better chances to get correct focus on the bird…just an idea…

It would be nice, like in the kowa iphone app, with individual markers for focus and exposure so you can put them wherever you like in the image to control focus and exposure. This requires a touchscreen on the camera…

LIVE VIEW
- Large screen is good, preferably a touchscreen. Digital zooming to see, if you have time, if focus is ok.

EXPOSURE
- Standard white balance function for outdoor use (automatic, cloudy, sunny, etc)
- Manual white balance, at least one but preferably three preset modes which you can store, so you can compensate for your individual spotting scope optics.
- Preset mode for shortest possible exposure time.
- Timer function, 1,2,3,10 s, the harder you have to press “button” to take a photo, the longer the time needed to get the scope still before exposure takes place.
- Remote triggering is good, then you don´t touch the scope, no movements…
- Preset mode for multiple exposures. 3, 5, 10 images.

QUICK ACCESS EXPOSURE & FOCUS WHEN TIME IS OF ESSENCE
- If you have very short of time from putting up the scope, pointing it towards the bird and focus…and the put on the camera to take a photo, you want a camera where there is easy access to preset modes, just choose the one you need and then taking the shot. So which shall the preset modes be ? A suggestion concerning easy direct access exposure control…

- AA: all automatic, with shortest possible exposure time, timer function 2s, multiple exposures 3 photos, raw format, highest resolution (a mode you use if you haven´t had time to update info, like white balance measured through your scope on a cloudy/sunny day, to get CDQ/SDQ etc going correctly… )


- CDQ: for cloudy day, quick performance…preset manual white balance mode (compensated for scope optics), shortest exposure time, timer function 2s (no time to put up the remote triggering), multiple exposures 10 photos. Optically zoomed in a bit to get rid of vignetting. Raw format, highest resolution

- SDQ: for sunny day, quick performance, preset manual white balance mode (compensated for scope optics), shortest exposure time, timer function 2s, (no time to put up the remote triggering), multiple exposures 10 photos.
Optically zoomed in a bit to get rid of vignetting. Raw format , highest resolution


- XDQ: for other choice of preset WB (compensated for scope optics), quick performance, shortest exposure time, timer function 2s, (no time to put up the remote triggering), multiple exposures 10 photos.
Optically zoomed in a bit to get rid of vignetting. Raw format, highest resolution


- CD: for cloudy day, “no hurry” , …preset manual white balance mode (compensated for scope optics), shortest exposure time, remote triggering, 1 photo. Optically zoomed in a bit to get rid of vignetting. Raw format, highest resolution

- SD: for sunny day, “no hurry” , …preset manual white balance mode (compensated for scope optics), shortest exposure time, remote triggering, 1 photo. Optically zoomed in a bit to get rid of vignetting. Raw format, highest resolution

- XD: for other choice of preset WB (compensated for scope optics), quick performance, shortest exposure time, remote triggering, 1 photo. Optically zoomed in a bit to get rid of vignetting. Raw format, highest reolution


The preset options like raw & number of multiple exposures, can be changed in the user defined modes above. Maybe everything can be changed if wanted. The suggestions above can be seen as default values…


HOW ABOUT FOCUS CONTROL ….if you need to refocus if the bird just flew away a bit before you could take a photo, you need options/preset modes to easily control focus. A suggestion concerning easy direct access focus control…you need a direct access switch to lock and unlock autofocus.

As an example, if there was a cloudy day, you have already in good time put the camera in mode CDQ as a precaution. Then you see the bird, you rush out of your car, put up the scope and tripod, focus on the bird with the scope focuser, put on the camera, the bird flies away a distance, then before moving the scope, you lock camera focus on something close by, where the bird was, then you relocate the scope towards the new place where the bird is, use the focuser on scope to focus on the bird while looking at the live viewer screen. After this you can either take the photos directly if you think it is in focus, or after releasing/unlocking autofocus.


INTERFACE CAMERA - EYEPIECE
Preferably some kind of (bayonet ?) interface on the camera to manage quick (1-2 s) mounting of camera to the adapter (already mounted to the scope ) or an interface between scope and adapter to quickly mount camera(with already mounted adapter) on scope.

A very short adapter, to be quickly mounted on camera, with a standard thread on the front to mount this camera+adapter to already existing spotting scope adapters. I guess there is a need for a lot of different thread sized adapters due to the large variety of existing digiscoping adapters made by scope manufacturer.

For those scopes with no provisions for attachments, like a thread on the scope, outside, at the base of the eyepiece, the only quick way to mount the camera is if there is a long adapter, mounted on the camera, like a tube to slide over the eyepiece. There might be need to put some tape on the eyepiece way down, so the tube can get a tight fit for better alignment and making involuntary movement of camera more difficult. Nice with some cut-outs so it is possible to zoom the EP.

The internal diameter of the camera adapter needs to be big to fit even the largest eyepieces on scopes today.


Regards,

Anders

Anders
Good job in putting this together but don't get your hopes up that the manufacturers will be listening.
Nikon have done the best job over the years with their Coolpix range which peaked with the Coolpix 8400 - the best all round digiscoping camera. They are still producing cameras that work well for digiscoping and the V1 and V2 come close to fullfilling your "wish list". All their lenses are internally focusing too and most work with no/little vignetting. They don't have a rotatable screen and Continuous wired remote but otherwise do a good job. The P 300 series (300/310/330) have also done a good job but don't have a lot of your requirements although the P330 now has Raw.
Recently the micro Four Thirds cameras have done a good job and the Panasonic G series is very well featured.
I would compare the Nikon V1 and Panasonic G6 to see what's missing for you.
The best IQ I'm seeing at the moment is from the excellent little Sony RX 100 but it lacks an Electronic Viewfinder (now an option on the RX 100 11 ) and a rotatable screen and remote control.
I only like cameras that will run silently ( this leaves Micro 4/3s and Nex out ) as I'm often very close in camouflage and don't want to startle the birds. Continuous shooting in Raw is important too.
Now I'm liking cameras that can be controlled from an iPhone. I have a third party solution for all my Canons that will shoot Time-lapse controlled from my phone.
Neil.

Neil, thanks for your answer.

The cameras you mentioned maybe “close” but not fulfilling all requirements but could be some of the best available today. I did a short check on them:

The Coolpix 8400 doesn’t have internally focusing lenses, only 8 Mpix, lithium batteries, non weatherproof.

The Nikon V2 doesn’t have AA-batteries, non weatherproof. I am not sure if it has internal focusing…since it can take Nikkor lenses I guess not. There seems to be some kind of bayonet interface on front of the lens supplied with the camera, can the camera be hung in that interface without “breaking”, if the lens is moving then the whole camera weight will be moved by the lens, probably not designed for that load…

The P330 doesn’t have AA-batteries, only 12Mpix sensor, the camera has a moveable lens, probably not designed to hang the camera in the lens if it was a filter holder on the lens. If you use this kind of camera you need some kind of contraption mounted to the tripod/scope to use the camera. I don’t like those contraptions, more weight to carry and takes up space.

I would like a slimfit solution, the Olympus TG- 1/2 is close interfacewise since it has a bayonet interface on the housing that maybe can be used for a DIY-solution. I have estimated the inner diameter of the interface to 30mm by using an image of the camera and it’s size, needed to know if the eyepieces match inside, otherwise there will be a unnecessary stand-off between EP – camera lens, maybe effecting image quality. My Meopta S2HD ocular outer diameter is 48,23mm, larger than 30mm, so I need to make an DIY-adapter and will get some stand-off if I would choose this camera. You can buy some adapter CLA- T01 with 40,5 mm filter thread to use when making an DIY-adapter. The camera is waterproof, only 12 Mpix, sadly only jpeg, no AA-batteries.

The Panasonic G6 has moveable lenses, I guess can’t be hung in the filter thread, weight a lot, is not that weatherproof nor compact, I would need a contraption to use it for digiscoping.

The Sony RX 100 has moveable lenses, no filter thread, no AA-batteries, is not weatherproof, probably needs a contraption to mount it for digiscoping.


So for now it seems the TG-1/2 seems to be the best compromise for a light, slimfit, no contraption solution.

Anders

Anders,

Some feedback and adding to what Neil already has commented.

I have not been keeping track about the recent P&S camera development over the last 2 years, I purchased a Canon S95 by then and it served me well, although I have switched over to digiscoping using "telescopes + prime focusing".

Anyway, my feedback based on own experience.

Must requirements
Vignetting: Slight vignetting at widest angle is acceptable, but try to avoid.
Optical quality: Don't compromise on this one.
RAW: Hard requirement
Zoom: 3X, 4X at most. Most of your pictures will probably not use the zoom fully extended.
Zoom mechanical design: Make sure the front of the lens will not crash into the EP, when fully extended.
Controls: Must feel right. Zoom, aperture, shutter button, (ISO) must be easy to find and operate.

Nice requirements:
Thread: Nice, being able to manufacture an adapter that you centre over the EP. If not you need a generic swing type bracket.
Weight: Nice, depends on the design of the tripod and head. Most P&S cameras are quite lightweight.
Weatherproof: Nice. Could be a hard requirement if you plan to photograph in bad weather, no matter what. (I don't).
Resolution: Don't let the pixel race fool you, 10-12 Mpixel should be enough.
Saving settings: Use "Custom" mode to save the preferred DS settings.
IS: Nice, will enable longer shutter times and mitigate wind and vibrations to some extent.
Display magnification: very nice when fine tuning focus.
Wireless remote control: Nice. I miss this one on my Canon. Very useful for high magnifications.
Performance (burst mode). Useful when there is lots of action, I miss this on my Canon.
Auto power-off. Nice, avoid draining the battery. I see your point with the AA batteries, if you plan long sessions without access to charging.

Hello Tord, thanks for your reply.

I agree in most of what you say but I want an easy to carry solution.
Maybe I should have written the title ” Requirements for a small compact digiscoping camera” but maybe such a camera has not so good optical quality….

Take a look at the Olympus TG-1/2…..that kind of size….too bad it doesn’t take RAW photos but it might be a compromise I can live with until a better camera is available….

I have sent an e-mail to Olympus here in Sweden asking to borrow a “demo example” for a couple of weeks to use for test on my scope and then write a review of it here on BF….we will see if I get lucky…

Anders