Canon 450D + Skywatcher 80ED (1 Viewer)

Musoman · Dec 17, 2009

Well its arrived but i'm in trouble

I cant seem to assemble it properly at this point just to simply look through it. No camera adapter yet, so i'm only trying to look through it.

Photo 1 shows turning the silver focusing wheels, which seem to keep on turning even when the silver tube is fully in or fully out. It gets stiffer to turn when the silver tube is fully in or fully out, but they still keep turning. I'm surprised the wheels dont stop at either end of full travel ?

The chrome knob ( marked ) doesnt seem to do anything

The thin back ring on the thread at the end can be removed, but i dont know why it should or should not be there

Photo 1

In photo 2, the bits are lined up and numbered to identify them as to what they are and whether i need them.
The short gold tube about 8" long, has a white bracket fixed to it, and its obvious that it mates with the bracket on the main 80ED tube, as they're shaped and is a perfect fit. I dont see how this going to help with it mounted on top.

The narrow 2" long tube at one end can unscrew. With it on, i can see things through it, but upside down and left to right is reversed, but if i unscrew it from the 8" gold tube, i cant see, as its all blurred. Also the, the 2" black thin tube has a very small glass element at the eye end, but its tiny, so i cant see this bit fitting in with digiscoping.

Photo 2

Photo 3 shows the extras and numbered for I.D.

Photo3

Photo 4 shows the same bits but i flipped then upside down so they can be seen and I.D.'d properly

Photo 4

So, basically - HELP !! :t:

Paul Corfield · Dec 17, 2009

Right, here goes.

It's perfectly normal for the wheels to keep turning even when the tube is at full travel. This happens on most telescope focusers because of the nature of their design.

In the first photo the chrome knob can be screwed in and it will lock the focuser in position if needs be. I put a piece of blu-tac around this screw as it can be prone to coming loose and dropping on the floor and will probably get lost on your first outing. Either use some blu-tac or take it off and keep it somewhere safe.

Just in front of this chrome screw you will see a little grub screw that sits flush with the surface. You can use the correct size allen key on this screw and it will tension the focuser just how you like it. With constant use of the focuser it needs tensioning now and then. I keep an allen key with me (taped to the scope) all the time as you never know when it will need doing.

Screw part 6 onto the silver tube. The black ring that is already on there locks up against part 6 and this allows you some freedom to screw part 6 on as much or as little as you like.

Once screwed on part 6 will allow the fitting of 2" attachments as it's bore is 2" diameter.

Part 2b goes into part 6 as I presume it's 2" diameter. Then part 5 goes into part 2a to allow you to put a 1.25" eyepiece into part 5. This should allow you to look at things through an eyepiece.

Part 4 has a 1.25" bore and can fit into part 6 to allow 1.25" attachments to be used if needs be but I doubt you will need much use for this part.

1A and 1B is the finder scope. This is used mainly for finding tiny stars fairly easily and then they should also be visible through the eyepiece. If you are using a high magnification eyepiece it can be really hard to find a star in the sky so the finder scope makes this job much easier. This piece wont have much use for digiscoping though.

For using the scope on the camera all you need is part 6 on the scope.

Paul.

Musoman · Dec 17, 2009

Lovely - cheers

So part 5 is only needed if i want to attach a 1.25" eyepiece, and if i prefer a 2" eyepiece, i wont need part 5

In fact, you say the same for part 4, and useful if i want use 1.25" bits, but again if i stick with 2", is this another part, along with part 5, that i may not need to use ?

Just assembled some of those bits and i got some focus on a car 100 yards up the road, and although things are the right way up, i think left to right is a bit weird, but i cant hold the scope steady enough to tell, and its very dark out.
I can tell aready that i do not like the 90 degree bit. ( Part 2 a+b )

Going back to part 5b, i guess i need it at the moment, as the 5mm and 20mm eyepiece chrome tubes fit that 5b part. So i guess i have 1.25" eyepieces. Once i get the camera mount MAX dslr, i presume i can do away with these eyepieces, as you say - i only need part 6 ?

Also, the 5mm and 20mm eyepieces actually unscrew from their repsective chrome tubes. Is there a benefit to this ?

I must admit, things are getting a bit more exciting now i've managed to see through it :king:

Sorry Paul - hope this isnt too boring for you. I cant imagime how many times you've had to tell people this stuff

Paul Corfield · Dec 17, 2009

Yeah, part 5 is only of use with part 2 with the eyepiece. Most eyepieces are 1.25" as 2" ones cost so much more.

Looking in part 2 I presume it's a mirror and not a prism. This is why things will be reversed left to right. As this equipment is designed mainly for astronomy, things like being wrong left to right or upside down doesn't matter. Plus a mirror gives a better quality image and better light transmission than a prism.

Leave the chrome barrels on the eyepieces as this is just the way they are constructed to allow the glass to be put in from one end.

No problems with helping out, it's all part of the fun.

Paul.

Musoman · Dec 17, 2009

Cheers matey

Well, unless i want to look at canyons on Venus, i see i can retire all those bits apart from No.6

And now, just waiting for the MAX dslr to pop through the letter box, and then some kinda 2" extension tube, and a TC.

Ah, the TC. While posting in this help thread, i've been reading many more threads and posts here, and just read about you posting to someone in a thread earlier in the summer, that you prefer DSLR teleconverters to Barlows.

I know we mentioned this before, but have you changed your mind about Barlows V. DSLR TC's ?

I'll put the best glass i can afford on the scope. I know the Kenko pro 300 DG series are expensive ( both 1.4 and 2) , but if they were prefereable to a Barlow, then i'd try and hunt down a used one

Mind you, you've recently posted about the new version GSO ED - so thats an option, but i wouldnt know the difference if someone sold me an old version GSO ED

Paul Corfield · Dec 17, 2009

For ease of use the teleconverter works best because it's built for that sole purpose. I only have the 1.4X Kenko Pro 300. Above 1.4X I like to use the 2X GSO Barlow or the DOI 2X teleconverter that I modified. If I had the money I'd probably get the 2X Kenko Pro 300. Teleconverters are well corrected for contrast and colour balance where as the GSO 2X is a little behind. As far as detail goes they are all about the same. Telelconverters are quick to change so you can switch magnification very quickly which is another bonus. If you don't want the magnification from the GSO barlow then you have to unscrew it from the Max DSLR which could result in a missed photo.

I'll try and post up some photos tomorrow all taken with different things so you can see the difference. I'll post them all unmodified to give you a good idea of what to expect.

Paul.

Musoman · Dec 17, 2009

I've only read good things about the Kenko Pro 300's, so it maybe an option, and like you said, much quicker to swap about.

On a different note, as you've mentioned, an ext. tube would be needed for closer work, but i forgot ask is... although you'd get closer focus for birds that are closer, do you have to then remove the tube again to get the long focus back ?

Photos would be fab !

Also I have to look in to the AF confirm chip too. Its a must for me. I have a few EOS / M42 pre-mounted chip adapters, but i guess these are no good, because although they fit the Canon 450d body ok, you have to specify the mount on the other side - and thats where that little plan goes wrong, so i guess its the seperate chip + glue

Just out of interest - is this Ext tube as good as DSLR ext. tubes, apart from being just one fixed length ?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TELESCOPE-80M...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518f259b74

Paul Corfield · Dec 17, 2009

With my 75mm tube I can focus through the whole range from infinity down to around 8m with the GSO barlow.

I shall also check tomorrow what sort of length tube you would need if you were going to use a teleconverter instead of a barlow. With a teleconverter you can get away with a much shorter tube as it's all to do with the optics being different to the barlow.

Something else to note with the Kenko teleconverter is that when it is on the scope you have to put tape over the pins otherwise it will report an error to the camera because there is no lens attached to it. I don't know if gluing the AF confirm chip into the Max DSLR would cure that or not but I guess it wouldn't or maybe it would?

The tube you linked to is ok. I know of a 50mm one going cheap and I'll send a pm tomorrow if I think the length is ok.

Paul.

Musoman · Dec 17, 2009

Ta Paul

I did a thorough search on Ebay to what was around re. Ext Tubes, and they're all the cheap ( £6/7/8 Chinese , HK ) type. Although only one or two sellers stated that their tubes were threaded, since they were all the same price from all sellers , whether in China or HK, i guess they were all threaded.

Apart from one set. Kenko - sadly at £84 for a set of 3 + post of £12 ( i think it was in the USA ) there's no way i'm going to pay that sort of money for a simple tube. A Kenko TC yes , but not a tube.

Appreciate the news on the DSLR TC - i didnt know they acted differently from Barlows.
If the required tube to get down to a reasonable close focus can be shorter, thats fine by me. Taping a DSLR TC is no problem

AS for the AF confirm chip - i dont know whether this reports or not. I guess taping the correct pins would sort it, if it was reporting.

:t:

Paul Corfield · Dec 18, 2009

Took some photos this morning before it started to snow here. Lovely cold air means you can photograph at long range without any air disturbance like you get in the summer.

Regarding extension tubes, I took all photos this morning with a 50mm extension tube in the back of the scope. I've listed the minimum focus distance with this 50mm length of tube.

Scope on its own will focus down to 9.5m approx.

With any teleconverter focus is 10m

With 2X barlow focus is only around 15m or 16m. The barlow requires at least 75mm extension to get down to 10m

Had to compress the photos quite a bit because of all the pine needles so some detail will be lost in the compression.

1st photo is with just the scope.

2nd photo is with Kenko Pro 300 1.4X TC stacked with the DOI 2X TC stacked with the 2X GSO barlow.

I'd guess it's giving about 5X overall as the GSO barlow is only about 1.5X on the camera. So in mm this is around 3500mm equivalent. As this image shows a small bird at this range would be quite easy to capture and in good detail too. The cones on the tree measure around 4".

3rd photo is just with the DOI 2X TC

4th is with the GSO barlow and I needed about 50mm macro tube between camera and barlow to reach 2X magnification.

Coinclusion - teleconverter images have better contrast than the GSO barlow and this includes all barlows, some are much worse than others. Teleconverters require only 50mm extension tube to get good close distance focusing. Detail is pretty similar in both images. Teleconverters can be used with other lenses. So I'd say where possible go for teleconverters first and barlow second.

Paul.

Paul Corfield · Dec 18, 2009

Snow has passed and spotted this Wood Pigeon in a tree at 30m range. Not many birds about today as it's so cold.

Did a comparison of 2X DOI teleconverter and the 2X barlow also with 100% crops to show feather detail. These photos are full frame, not cropped at all.

The teleconverter clearly has the edge in all departments. As they are so cheap on ebay it's worth getting one of these and taking out the lens cell and try to rig something up to mount it in the Max DSLR. Make sure it is the DOI 2X HQ7. HQ stands for high quality and 7 is for 7 glass elements.

Paul.

Paul Corfield · Dec 18, 2009

Here's a photo of the rail that I've attached to the bottom of my scope for the tripod. This is the rail that comes with the scope and originally had the tube rings attached. It is already pre threaded for the tripod screw.

Paul.

Musoman · Dec 18, 2009

The photos are excellent - even the ones with Barlows, but as you say, Tele C wins on IQ over the Barlows - thats made a decision for me in that case. The DOI TC's seem to be thin on the ground - maybe have to get one from abroad

Thanks for posting those, as its made choosing that much easier.

Tiny amount of snow here in Oxfordshire - better get the birds water bowls unfrozen :t:

Paul Corfield · Dec 18, 2009

There's a few on ebay but probably the top end of what I'd want to pay. I'd say £10 is about the most for something that's going to get stripped down. I've bought three in the last couple of years, one of them was in Olympus mount, one was Pentax and the other was Canon FD. The more obscure the mount then the cheaper you can get them.

I've tried pretty much every 7 element teleconverter ever made and the DOI one is easily the best performer.

Paul.

Musoman · Dec 18, 2009

Strip them down - I thought that you only did that with Barlows ?

I was looking through Fleabay for an EOS mount DOI TC

If you can simply use any DOI, mount makes no difference, and i noticed there's a few for sale, i just didnt see any with an EOS mount.

Something i forgot to ask - with a barlow, do they fit as near to the camera as possible, or as near to the Scope as possible - same with a TC i suppose, although since TC's come with a specific DSLR mount, i would imagine there's no choice but to mount it on the camera.

Paul Corfield · Dec 18, 2009

I've never seen a DOI in EOS mount plus anything in EOS mount will fetch a much higher price. I just buy them in whatever mount as long as they are cheap and then strip the whole thing down. I posted a thread here a while back on stripping down the DOI which can be seen on this link.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=134826

You mentioned where the barlow fits in - the barlow screws into the Max DSLR so it is quite close to the camera. It has to be quite a way away from the scope to reach focus. This is what governs the length of the extension tube going into the scope.

Regarding teleconverters, it is close to the camera but you can also put a macro tube between the camera and Teleconverter which will increase magnification.

Paul.

Musoman · Dec 18, 2009

Thanks Paul - just off to read that link

Also, since i've ordered a non threaded EOS adapter, MAX dslr, will i have problems mounting a DOi ?

Do i now need to buy a 1.25" tube of some sort, after reading that modifyling link ?

Ha! Typical - the 2 Cheapest ( £13 including postage ) DOI's on Ebay at the mo are for OM - there's only one for an FD and its silly money

Musoman · Dec 18, 2009

PS

The photo of item 3a/3b -- the chrome section unscrews and is 1.25"

And item 5 seems to be a 2" to 1.25" adapter

Would any of those items enable fitting of a DOI TC elements ?

Paul Corfield · Dec 18, 2009

Mounting in the 1.25 tube like I did in the link was one option but it was more a fluke that it fitted. I've also found that when I've stripped down DOI teleconverters for other makes of camera that the lens assembly has been slightly different too. This means that different ones wont be a straight fit into a 1.25" tube. A lot of 1.25" tubes are different internally so it's not always so simple. I think where possible it's best to work in the 2" format which is how I currently have mine mounted. I got a piece of black plastic tube from B&Q which is a nice push fit into my T-ring/2" scope adapter which in your case is the Max DSLR. Then I got another smaller diameter piece of tube which is a nice fit into the black plastic tube. Then I fit the DOI assembly into that. Sometimes it involves winding lengths of electrical tape around certain bits to pack them out to make them a nice fit but it all works well in the end which is all I'm after. A lot of this digiscoping stuff involves hunting round for bits and pieces but it's worth it to save loads of money. Ideally I'd just like teleconverters in EOS mounts but I don't think Santa will be that generous this year. |:d|

Paul.

Musoman · Dec 18, 2009

yeah, i think i'm going to have to wing it a bit on certain bits of this digiscoping lark

Canon 450D + Skywatcher 80ED (1 Viewer)

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