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Choice of telephoto lens for my 350D changed again. (1 Viewer)

senatore

senatore

Well-known member
Following lots of great advice in other BF threads I had chosen a Sigma 135-400 DG lens to go with my Canon 350D but frustrated by not being able to get one (many websites showing them as "in stock" in fact did'nt have any) I thought I look into getting the Sigma 170-500DG which is more readily available but more expensive.

My mind was made up when,by sheer, chance I found a site with them on offer for £449.99.I ordered it at 10.00Am on Tuesday and it arrived at noon the next day funnily enough direct from Sigma.Not a bad service !!!!! For anyone interested the site was www.buyacamera.co.uk.

Hells Teeth !!!!! It is big.I am going to have trouble hand holding it.Cannot wait to have a go later today.I will publish the results however bad if only to get advice from you guys.

Max.
 
Well here are my first pics with the new lens.Comment and advice very welcome.

It was a dull afternoon and I could only get low shutter speeds (1/60 -I/100) and could only get shots at f5.6.

Max.
 

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senatore said:
Well here are my first pics with the new lens.Comment and advice very welcome.

It was a dull afternoon and I could only get low shutter speeds (1/60 -I/100) and could only get shots at f5.6.

Max.
Click to expand...

Hi Max,

That shutter speed looks horribly low especially if you are handholding. What iso setting is the camera set on. If you can increase the iso setting then the shutter speed will increase which will help. You will find that most of the time the aperture will be f5.6 in order to keep the shutter speed high. Most lenses work better if you can stop them down to say f8 but that benefit will quickly be lost if the shutter speed slows down and camera shake becomes a factor again.

A rule of thumb from years ago was that the shutter speed should match the length of lens, ie 1/500 sec for a 500mm lens.

Regards

Paul
 
Yep,

and now the shutter speed rule should include the crop factor of the camera sensor, so you really want 1/(500 x 1.6) in other words 1/800 sec.

Or image stabilisation..!

(Just kidding, Max - you'll be fine!)

;)
 
senatore said:
Well here are my first pics with the new lens.Comment and advice very welcome.

It was a dull afternoon and I could only get low shutter speeds (1/60 -I/100) and could only get shots at f5.6.

Max.
Click to expand...

As an interested observer, can I ask what ISO setting was used Max?

i'd have liked to have seen the same shots at ISO 800 or even 1600 just to see what it could do.
 
Quacker said:
As an interested observer, can I ask what ISO setting was used Max?

i'd have liked to have seen the same shots at ISO 800 or even 1600 just to see what it could do.
Click to expand...


It looks like these shots were taken at ISO200 - with the 350D you could have pushed up to ISO800 and still got good results (probably better as your shutter speeds would have been significantly faster). Personally I normally shot on either ISO400 or ISO800 and in extreme at ISO1600, with a program like Neat Image you can deal with the noise afterwards. I have a shot in my gallery taken at ISO1600 and 1/125th, but it's cleaned up quite well - though with shutter speeds that slow you really need to use a tripod (or other support).

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/77940/sort/1/cat/500/page/1
 
senatore said:
Following lots of great advice in other BF threads I had chosen a Sigma 135-400 DG lens to go with my Canon 350D but frustrated by not being able to get one (many websites showing them as "in stock" in fact did'nt have any) I thought I look into getting the Sigma 170-500DG which is more readily available but more expensive.

My mind was made up when,by sheer, chance I found a site with them on offer for £449.99.I ordered it at 10.00Am on Tuesday and it arrived at noon the next day funnily enough direct from Sigma.Not a bad service !!!!! For anyone interested the site was www.buyacamera.co.uk.

Hells Teeth !!!!! It is big.I am going to have trouble hand holding it.Cannot wait to have a go later today.I will publish the results however bad if only to get advice from you guys.

Max.
Click to expand...

Sorry Max, can you confirm you got your original wish of 135-400DG as they are both priced at £449.99 on the site.

Steve
 
Quacker said:
As an interested observer, can I ask what ISO setting was used Max?

i'd have liked to have seen the same shots at ISO 800 or even 1600 just to see what it could do.
Click to expand...
Hi Quacker,
I was so keen to take some shots that I ignored the ISO setting.It was on 200!! Another lesson learned!!!
If you use a high ISO does the quality suffer much?

Max.
 
Keith Reeder said:
Yep,

and now the shutter speed rule should include the crop factor of the camera sensor, so you really want 1/(500 x 1.6) in other words 1/800 sec.

Or image stabilisation..!

(Just kidding, Max - you'll be fine!)

;)
Click to expand...
Hi Keith,
Does this mean I should only shoot in bright conditions with this lens?

Max.
 
postcardcv said:
It looks like these shots were taken at ISO200 - with the 350D you could have pushed up to ISO800 and still got good results (probably better as your shutter speeds would have been significantly faster). Personally I normally shot on either ISO400 or ISO800 and in extreme at ISO1600, with a program like Neat Image you can deal with the noise afterwards. I have a shot in my gallery taken at ISO1600 and 1/125th, but it's cleaned up quite well - though with shutter speeds that slow you really need to use a tripod (or other support).

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/77940/sort/1/cat/500/page/1
Click to expand...
Hi Postcard,
You are right ISO 200 was used.I note your comments on ISO and will amend as necessary next time.Thanks.

Max.
 
Quacker said:
Sorry Max, can you confirm you got your original wish of 135-400DG as they are both priced at £449.99 on the site.

Steve
Click to expand...
Hi Steve,
Lots of sites had the 135-400DG priced at anything from £405 upwards but had not got any canon fit in stock.When I saw the 170-500DG at £449 and they had one in stock I thought this was a better value buy (over £500 elsewhere).So my original wish changed .How much of a ditherer am I?

Max.
 
It,s me again and I've taken some more pics which I would love comment and advice?tips please.The pics were taken at my local patch with the camera resting on the hide window ledge.The weather was cloudy but a with little brightness.I used ISO 200 (lesson not yet learned), 1/250 and f8.

Max.
 

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Keith Reeder said:
Yep,

and now the shutter speed rule should include the crop factor of the camera sensor, so you really want 1/(500 x 1.6) in other words 1/800 sec.
;)
Click to expand...
I always thought this to be the case but having thought about this as a result of Mark's crop factor and camera shake thread (click here) I now believe that this is not the case. 1/500 should be fine and this is in fact in line with my experience using the 170-500 on the 350D.
 
senatore said:
It,s me again and I've taken some more pics which I would love comment and advice?tips please.The pics were taken at my local patch with the camera resting on the hide window ledge.The weather was cloudy but a with little brightness.I used ISO 200 (lesson not yet learned), 1/250 and f8.

Max.
Click to expand...
The slightly faster shutter speeds and the fact that you were supporting the lens on the hide has significantly reduced camera shake. They all look a bit under-exposed to me though. What exposure settings were you using?

Sean
 
SeanKP said:
The slightly faster shutter speeds and the fact that you were supporting the lens on the hide has significantly reduced camera shake. They all look a bit under-exposed to me though. What exposure settings were you using?

Sean
Click to expand...

Much better images. Choosing a bigger subject is a good idea for first attempts instead of little things that never stay still. Herons can be very useful, they don't move for hours!
The exposure doesn't look too far out assuming the camera is set to matrix metering. Maybe centre weighted would be better.

Max, at the moment I would leave the camera on aperture priority and set the aperture to f5.6, set the iso to 400, centre weighted metering and AI servo focus and take loads of pictures to get used to the camera and lens.

Even on a tripod it took me ages to get a sharp image with the 50-500. The long focal length really emphasises camera shake just from pressing the shutter. As I said earlier the lens will be better on f8 but for now i'd use f5.6 and keep the shutter speed as high as possible.

Regards

Paul
 
HI Max
sorry not to have commented but I didnt realise that your photos were posted here. Your problem is not one of shutterspeeds or incorrect isos because your images are sharp but more to do with placement of light. For effective bird photography you really have to learn how the light reacts upon birds and how to site the camera in the right direction for the light source. The birds in these photos are dark because (as in the geese) they are possible in shade and as in the case of the black swan it is placed in the direction of the sun (hence the over exposure of the background)
Always look where pockets of light are good. Do not shoot birds that are in the shade unless it is something rare like a bluethroat ;) and always have the sun behind you.

This lens at 500mm does not have an f stop of 5.6 it is F6.3 and in poor light at this aperture quality and focus will always be compromised. Even on a dull day light is better in some places that in others, make a point in looking for it.
As for handholding at only 1/800 that is utter rubbish.In good light you can easily handhold down to 1/200 and still get good sharp photos.
Btw congratulations on your first shots ;)
 
Max,
Your initial series of shots using a long zoom are wayyyyyy better than what I got. You should be very pleased with yourself :)

Psilo brings up a very good point. As with any other type of photography, light is key for bird/wildlife shots. Not only to make sure your subject is lit well enough to obtain a good exposure with nice contrast and detail, but the direction of the lighting is also important.

Shooting birds is can be very challenging because of the light and dark coloring (usually on the same bird). Since digtals have a limited dynamic range, how does one capture the shadow or darker detail without blowing out the whites? There are quite a few things you can do. The easiest is to shoot early in the morning or later in the afternoon when the light isn't as harsh and there's not as many stops difference between the shadows and the highlights. Or, if you can't shoot at these times, you can use EV Compensation in P, Av or Tv modes, or +1/3 - +1 meter reading using M mode, to over expose, as required. Resulting in a better exposure of the shadow/darker areas. The issue with this method is the same problem Psilo cites about risking even more over exposure/blow out to the/a lighter background. You can also use RAW and to gain additional exposure latitude. The cool thing about this method is that you can do 2 conversions. One for your subject, or areas of your subject and another for the background. You can then "blend" these two conversions using a layer mask and erase/paint to expand the dynamic range of the image.

As I wrote, you did very well for just getting this lens. Keep shooting those birds :)

Steve
 
psilo said:
As for handholding at only 1/800 that is utter rubbish.
Click to expand...
Hey!

Whether or not I was speaking "utter rubbish", I was only repeating an oft-quoted rule of thumb as a follow-up to Paul's original post about 1/500 being the target speed, and I only posted it at all as a lead-in to my tease about IS.

God knows, I regard that "rule" as an irrelevance, and I've written enough times that with decent technique you can handhold effectively at low shutter speeds.

:C
 
Last edited:
I'm no photographer but I'm sure I read that the Sigma Senatore has purchased is hopless if you want to hand hold...size, weight, etc?????

John.
 
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