• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Choice of telephoto lens for my 350D changed again. (1 Viewer)

psilo said:
HI Max
This lens at 500mm does not have an f stop of 5.6 it is F6.3 and in poor light at this aperture quality and focus will always be compromised. Even on a dull day light is better in some places that in others, make a point in looking for it.
As for handholding at only 1/800 that is utter rubbish.In good light you can easily handhold down to 1/200 and still get good sharp photos.
Btw congratulations on your first shots ;)


Blimey, you try to help someone and get your head bitten off, typical of most threads on this forum.

The lens will display f5.6 at 500mm otherwise the AF would not work which is why that figure was stated.

Using a shutter speed the same as the focal length IS good advice for someone starting out in photography. Using a 500mm lens is not easy and to improve the chances of success a high shutter speed is I consider THE most important factor! Therefore altering the f stop and iso IS important.

Virtually all my recent shots were taken at f5.6 and I am happy with them so I don't agree that this setting is unuseable.

I've only had the 500mm lens a few months and do not attempt handholding it when photographing small birds. Max has only had his a few hours and I would be astonished if he got sharp pictures at 1/200 handheld.

If handholding is so easy why do professional photographers use tripods, monopods and beanbags to support the camera? :C
 
john barclay said:
I'm no photographer but I'm sure I read that the Sigma Senatore has purchased is hopless if you want to hand hold...size, weight, etc?????

John.


I don't want to contradict myself but the lens is perfectly useable handheld as Psilo's images prove.
However it is a skill that has to be learned on top of learning to:-

Use the camera
Use the light
Learn to pan
Learn to follow birds through the viewfinder as they move around
Learn to press the shutter gently

and then after you have taken the picture:-

Learn to use photoshop or whatever because there are not many pictures in anyones gallery that are straight out of the camera (zero in mine)

Its a lot to take in on day 1
 
Hi everyone,
Thank you all for the many replies.They are much appreciated and much needed.It's obvious I have entered an "interesting" world the moment I purchased a DSLR and telephoto lens.Should be lots of fun ahead.

Max.
 
senatore said:
Hi everyone,
Thank you all for the many replies.They are much appreciated and much needed.It's obvious I have entered an "interesting" world the moment I purchased a DSLR and telephoto lens.Should be lots of fun ahead.

Max.

"Fun!" I'd sell up and get out while you can. :bounce:
 
john barclay said:
I'm no photographer but I'm sure I read that the Sigma Senatore has purchased is hopless if you want to hand hold...size, weight, etc?????

It really is down to the individual to put the effort in to learn the technique, John - there's no secret to it, it just takes time.

I can, if I choose to, handhold my Sigma 80-400mm OS with the stabilisation off, and that thing weighs almost a pound more than the 170-500mm.

I actually still do this sometimes, just to keep my hand in.

Of course fast shutter speeds help (especially, as Paul rightly points out, when learning), but working at it and learning the technique is the key.

The attached record shot was taken yesterday without stabilisation at "just" 1/400th. That was actually the fastest shutter speed I could get, and it was so dark that this is at f5/6 and 1600 ISO, letting the camera choose the ISO.

This hasn't been noise filtered incidentally - the D70 isn't really so bad at high ISO, and is pretty much "out of the camera" with only a slight levels tweak to brighten it up a tad.

Granted, it's soft - that's mainly down to the high ISO noise killing the fine detail (it cleans up OK though) - but it shows that it can be done, even in crappy conditions.
 

Attachments

  • treesparrow1x.jpg
    treesparrow1x.jpg
    75.7 KB · Views: 229
Last edited:
Yet another pic taken yesterday for comment please.I think the colour is quite good but detail and sharpness is not so good allthough I was not handholding and it was bright.

Max.
 

Attachments

  • blue 1 (Small).jpg
    blue 1 (Small).jpg
    19.2 KB · Views: 159
Shutter speed's fine - 1/500 - so that looks like a focus issue.

I guess this is a pretty tight crop Max - was there anything in the way that the camera might have acquired focus on?
 
Keith Reeder said:
Shutter speed's fine - 1/500 - so that looks like a focus issue.

I guess this is a pretty tight crop Max - was there anything in the way that the camera might have acquired focus on?
Hi Keith,
Yes it was a tight crop and there were feeders and fence posts for the camera to focus on.The trouble was this bird stayed on the feeders for a split second and the shot was taken in a state of semi-panic.I hope I will learn !!!!!!!!

Max.
 
Newbie camera settings

paul goode said:
...I would leave the camera on aperture priority and set the aperture to f5.6, set the iso to 400, centre weighted metering and AI servo focus and take loads of pictures to get used to the camera and lens.
Paul

Hi Paul,
I think these are the suggestions that might prove most helpful for a newbie (like me) ... perhaps a thread dedicated (sticky?) to these aspects would be warmly welcomed by most of us ...
En passant, do you think these settings might be applied as well to my 350D+Tamron 200-500?

Thank you,
Max
 
gmax said:
Hi Paul,
I think these are the suggestions that might prove most helpful for a newbie (like me) ... perhaps a thread dedicated (sticky?) to these aspects would be warmly welcomed by most of us ...
En passant, do you think these settings might be applied as well to my 350D+Tamron 200-500?

Thank you,
Max


Hi Max,

Somewhere on another thread Keith Reeder proposed a 'sticky thread' on basic camera advice and settings so maybe we should get that going.

Anyway, yes I think those settings are relevant but instead of just saying use them I'll try to explain why they are a good starting point.

A proviso I will mention straight away is that some of the settings were for using the camera in the near darkness that passes for daytime in England at the moment! In Italy the light may well be better and that will be in your favour as some settings can be altered, which I will come onto.

Aperture priority. using this setting gives the easiest control over the shutter speed which is essential. The auto mode and the P mode mean the camera sets what it wants - not good, I'll skip Tv and manual mode because life's too short.

By setting Av and then turning the dial to the lenses widest aperture, F5.6 (as it reports it to the camera, its actually F6.3 but don't worry about that) the camera will set the fastest shutter speed it can for the amount of light.
In my opinion this is essential because for people new to using this sort of kit camera shake is the biggest factor in ruined pictures.

The ISO setting also affects the shutter speed, the higher the ISO the higher the shutter speed - good news. The bad news is that the image quality deteriorates at high ISO's. So ISO400 is a good compromise to keep the shutter speed high but also keep good image quality.

With these settings applied you can now see what shutter speed the camera has set. If you are handholding the lens I still say (although I was shot down on this before) it NEEDS to be at least 1/500 of a second. If the lens is supported then it can be lower.


If, say, the shutter speed is 1/250 you will have to increase the ISO to 800 and sort out the noise in the image later. If its 1/125 increase the ISO to 1600. If its below that and you need to handhold don't bother.

If, in sunny Italy, the shutter speed is 1/4000 you can increase the aperture to F7.1 and decrease the ISO to 200. The shutter speed will still be above 1/500 and the changed settings will improve the picture quality, Lenses work better whats called 'stopped down' a bit from their maximum aperture.

I use centre weighted metering because I find evaluative tends to expose for the background rather than the bird and partial alters the settings wildly. To explain beyond that is I think complicating things at the moment.

A1Servo. This focus mode 'tracks' the bird as it moves and so gives the best chance of having the bird in focus when you press the shutter.

These settings should give you a chance of a decent shot. Exposure problems will raise their head but I think are less important in the early days than getting a sharp, focussed image.

Under and overexposed images can, to a degree, be sorted out later but a blurred image is blurred. Full Stop.

And above all else take lots of shots and get used to the 'feel' of the kit.

Hope that helps

Paul
 
Last edited:
paul goode said:
Somewhere on another thread Keith Reeder proposed a 'sticky thread' on basic camera advice and settings so maybe we should get that going.

Paul

Wow Paul,
that would really get me going ... thanks! I strongly support Keith's initiative ...
As soon as I get the lens (supposed to arrive tomorrow), the first thing I'll do is trying to put into practice your advice ...
I hope to let you see what sunny Italy means ... not in these days anyway! There're still some winter notes around here, snow on the nearby mountains and a chilly eastern wind blowing ... a bad cold and an impatient girlfriend ... but nothing will prevent me from going out and shoot any flying being I'll meet ... lol o:D
Thank you,
Max
 
I've enjoyed reading this thread. Can I take it that most people think the 170-500 a good lens for bird photography? I've just come into a little money (insurance co. paying me for a dog bite!) and was thinking of the Sigma 170-500 for my Canon 20D. Do you think this a good combination, or will I soon be left frustrated by an inability to fill the frame?


Rob
 
Rob If you check out my gallery most of my pics are taken with the 350D and 170-500 this will give you an idea of what it can produce.
 
Thanks for that, some great shots. Now the thought is, do I buy a 170-500 or pay the extra and get a 50-500? Then I could later add a TC.

Decisions, decisions.


Rob
 
Rob Williams said:
Thanks for that, some great shots. Now the thought is, do I buy a 170-500 or pay the extra and get a 50-500? Then I could later add a TC.

Decisions, decisions.


Rob

Hi Rob,

As you say decisions, decisions.

I've got the 50-500 and am happy I paid the extra over the 170-500, the AF is much faster and quieter. however the trade off is it is heavier which doesn't bother me but I try to support the lens rather than handhold it.

I wouldn't plan on doing much with a TC on either lens though. Theoretically you will lose AF on both lenses and my experience with a 2X was far from successful.

That said I'm more than happy with the 50-500, check out my gallery for some examples of what it can do.

regards

Paul.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 18 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top