james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
How much of this bino is Kamakura, and how much is Tract? Thanks!
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Tract Toric 8x42 Experience (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jgraider
- Start date
How much of this bino is Kamakura, and how much is Tract? Thanks!
mfunnell
Registered Confuser
Trevor, one of your competitors (Maven) claims much the same thing. Yet, as Chuck has pointed out, you're selling at a relatively lower price-point from them and other similarly-specified bins. It is quite hard to know whether this is because different vendors are capturing higher or lower margins, whether there are differences in the quality of the bins and whether one does better than the other on price/performance due to better design.
There are many imponderables. But I guess I will be left to ponder, at least about Tract binoculars. Not to put too fine a point on it, one of the major reasons for that is that I can buy binoculars from the other guys (eg. Maven, Zeiss, Meopta) but I can't buy binoculars from Tract. You are direct to consumer only - but only if those consumers are in the USA or Canada, which I am not. I have bought from Maven (6x30 B.3) who have a similar direct-to-consumer business model - but one that includes me. Yours does not.
This kind of thing (not specific to you) is something of a personal annoyance of mine, though I'm sure it's of little concern to Tract. The deliberate exclusion of substantial markets for your products might concern you more, though on past experience I doubt it. Yes, I know there are ways around this (I have many friends in the US) but I usually can't be bothered - figuring that I don't much want to buy from people who don't want to sell to me.
...Mike
Tract_Optics
Well-known member
Hi James,
Our 2 founders came together and formed Tract with about 15-20 years each of Optics development and sales. Its no secret where they came from, and if you look at where the development went from 15 years ago until now, you will see what Jon has done for them before he decided to leave. You always need factory engineers to work out some details, but the vast majority of the design, development, spec control, and material selection is done in house. Even so far as reworking eye box measurements, internals on focus adjustments, etc. Even the armoring on the barrels in modeled and reworked in house before ever sent for prototyping. Certainly need to partner with a great manufacturing facility, but these products were conceived and developed with Tract.
Trevor
Tract Optics
Tract_Optics
Well-known member
Hi Mike,
Well noted on all points. I think this may tie into my above post as well on sales. We came to the arena with great leaders and a team that knows the market in correlation with strong development ties. We know how to use our relationships in development, logistics, and presentation to get the best prices and ensure Tract is prosperous and can pass those savings on.
That being said, we are working on the details to open sales to more countries. Its always been on the docket, but with some of the feedback from international requests, were speeding that up a bit.
Trevor
Tract Optics
BruceH
Avatar: Harris Hawk
Jgraider ..... Thanks for the confirmation. That is what I was thinking from browsing the website.
Hopefully Trevor will respond if they have any plans on offering a case. Off hand, one would think it is easy to find the right aftermarket case, but I have found it to be a hassle. Most of the cases are OEM only. To me, any binocular presented as a premium offering should include a case. Lack of a case would mostly likely not stop me from making a purchase if it was a model I really wanted, but it would be a negative.
Zeiss initially marketed the entry level Terra packaged in a clear plastic container with a pouch. However they did offer a nice cordura case for the asking and a few bucks for shipping. The pouch was not that popular with some of the members but the case offer took care of that. Maven also excludes a case, which does seem strange since their unique marketing approach is a custom look. I would think they would have a selection of cases to go with that custom binocular.
There is an OEM case I have seem that is used by several binocular sellers and it would go well with the Toric. Looks like they are outsourced from China with some customization for each binocular manufacturer. Zen-Ray uses it for the Prime.
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=394451&d=1342187321
Hopefully Trevor will respond if they have any plans on offering a case. Off hand, one would think it is easy to find the right aftermarket case, but I have found it to be a hassle. Most of the cases are OEM only. To me, any binocular presented as a premium offering should include a case. Lack of a case would mostly likely not stop me from making a purchase if it was a model I really wanted, but it would be a negative.
Zeiss initially marketed the entry level Terra packaged in a clear plastic container with a pouch. However they did offer a nice cordura case for the asking and a few bucks for shipping. The pouch was not that popular with some of the members but the case offer took care of that. Maven also excludes a case, which does seem strange since their unique marketing approach is a custom look. I would think they would have a selection of cases to go with that custom binocular.
There is an OEM case I have seem that is used by several binocular sellers and it would go well with the Toric. Looks like they are outsourced from China with some customization for each binocular manufacturer. Zen-Ray uses it for the Prime.
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=394451&d=1342187321
BruceH
Avatar: Harris Hawk
jgraider ...... I wish that I had an answer for you, but best I can tell, this case is an OEM product only. Your question sums up the problem. There are some great cases out there but they are not readily available. Manufacturers have access to them but I do not have direct access as an individual purchaser.
I know I have seen this case used for models from a couple of other binocular manuafacturers but Zen-Ray is the only one I remember. Maybe some other members will recognize the style and post about it. There is a good chance Zen-Ray will sell you just the case as an accessory if you contact them. That may be true for some of the other manufacturers that use this style. Of course the down side is it will have that company's logo on the case.
It is a real nice case, second only to the Zeiss Cordura case used for the FL and the HT. I now have a Zeiss HT case (which has a different color top than the FL case) for my Nikon EDG 10X42. I was using a Zeiss FL case for the Nikon but now use it for the Zeiss SF. The original SF case is very high quality but not as practical as the FL case.
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=386139&d=1337744374
So it may be possibe to get a case from a different manufacturer for a Toric, but the logo of the other manufacturer will be on display with the Toric stored safely inside out of sight. I doubt if that is a situation that would make Tract very happy!
I know I have seen this case used for models from a couple of other binocular manuafacturers but Zen-Ray is the only one I remember. Maybe some other members will recognize the style and post about it. There is a good chance Zen-Ray will sell you just the case as an accessory if you contact them. That may be true for some of the other manufacturers that use this style. Of course the down side is it will have that company's logo on the case.
It is a real nice case, second only to the Zeiss Cordura case used for the FL and the HT. I now have a Zeiss HT case (which has a different color top than the FL case) for my Nikon EDG 10X42. I was using a Zeiss FL case for the Nikon but now use it for the Zeiss SF. The original SF case is very high quality but not as practical as the FL case.
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=386139&d=1337744374
So it may be possibe to get a case from a different manufacturer for a Toric, but the logo of the other manufacturer will be on display with the Toric stored safely inside out of sight. I doubt if that is a situation that would make Tract very happy!
It is the same case that came with the Leupold McKinley (1st gen). Perhaps Leupold has a way to purchase replacement accessories?
I was impressed by your review jgraider because it seems honest and unbiased and you said the Trac-Toric was brighter and sharper than the Zeiss Conquest HD which I consider the best of the mid-priced binoculars. I was also impressed with the fact that Trevor from Trac Optics personally answered some questions about Trac Optics. I ordered a Trac-Toric in 8x42 and I receive it Monday so I will let you know what I think of it right here.
BruceH
Avatar: Harris Hawk
Knowing your often stated affinity for a wide field of view, I am at a loss to understand why you decided to evaluate the 8X model with a 377 ft FOV at a 1,000 yards. This compares to a 423 FOV of your beloved Swaro EL SV 8X32.
It seems to me the 10X Toric with the wide 341 ft FOV would have been the better choice for your preferences. It is also noticeably lighter at 27 oz compared to the 35 oz of your 10X50 Swaro EL SV. You could then weigh the trade-offs between the possibly lesser optics of the Toric compared to the bulk and weight of the EL SV 10X50.
Somehow I think I know how this is going to turn out! :eek!:
I agree with you on jgraider's review. He has had the opportunity to look through a lot of different binoculars guiding many people and he is never bashful in expressing his opinion.
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I only have the Swarovski 8x32 SV and the 10x50 SV now. I liked my Swarovski Habicht 8x30 W but in the end the flare got to me. In most birding situations the Habicht was fine but I realized it had a lot of flare and Tobias has mentioned this but he uses sun shades on the end of his and I am just not going to use sun shades on my binoculars. Recently, I was on a camping/hiking trip to Rocky Mountain National Park and I stopped at a place called "Sheep Lake" where you pull off the road and scan the high mountain cliffs for Big Horn Sheep. You are looking up at an extreme angle in sunny conditions to see the sheep. Well, I was appalled at how much flare the Habicht's showed in this situation. The whole FOV was covered in this milky film and you couldn't see anything. I can't put up with that bad of flare. I tried my two SV's and they showed a little flare but nothing like the Habicht. Between the two SV's the 10x50 showed more detail than the 8x32 SV and I preferred the view but the 10x50's can be hard to hold steady so it can be difficult to get a steady view. Once I relaxed they were pretty steady and I think it depends on how much you have been drinking the night before. I really understand why people prefer 8x. Overall they are a good compromise. Well, anyway I sold the Habicht's on Ebay quite quickly and now I am looking for a replacement for them. I want a good 8x roof because I don't think anything will beat the big 10x50 SV's in 10x. I was going to buy the new Nikon 8x42 MHG and I still may if I don't like the Trac Toric 8x42 but the initial reviews haven't been that super on the new Nikon with Binastro saying he still prefers the Zeiss Conquest HD and you would have to buy it from overseas to get one now. Jgraider says the Trac Toric is brighter and sharper than the Conquest HD so the Trac Toric must be better than the new Nikon MHG right? My keepers right now are the two SV's but I am going to try a few different binoculars to replace the Habicht's and I am not going to pay for another alpha unless I can get a real bargain on one. I know I like the Zeiss SF because I have tried one. I also like the looks of the Toric and the fact that jgraider said it had good build quality and it is made in Japan right? I will try one if I don't like it I will order an MHG from Clifton Cameras and try that. I already got a price quote from them. One thing that bothers me a little is the Trac would definitely be harder to sell down the road than a Swarovski but I don't really think the Nikon MHG would be much better. Higher end Nikon's don't have good resale because people are not used to paying high prices for Nikon's.
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denco, I'll be anxious to hear your assessment of the Toric. The only area I wish for improvement is an increase in FOV, but when I look through them, the view is so nice I don't think about it. I haven't found anything that can match a 10x50 SV though, as you have said. It has no peer IMHO.
I think the 10x50 SV is probably the best binocular I have ever used but I like the 8x32 SV also because I can hold it steady easier say under windy conditions.The 10x50 SV shows amazing detail if you have steady hands and I can spot sheep and elk easier with it. For some people 10x is a little hard to hold steady. You said the Toric handles flare well? The Swarovski Habicht 8x30 W shows a lot of flare under sunny conditions when viewing at extreme angles. I will write some comments on the Toric after I have had it for awhile.
Tract_Optics
Well-known member
Hi Bruce,
Sorry for the delay. I haven't asked specifically why a case wasn't included, but I would venture to say it was just to reduce cost to bring the line out as best priced as possible.
You are correct that any soft case would need to be sourced from China and unless you're bringing in a large quantity you will pay a decent amount of change for them. I completely understand that you like getting a case with a bino, but I'd personally rather save a few bucks as mine always end up in a asti hard case (usually a pistol or pelican style case) for storage. Much easier to stack that way....and then when in the field they are in a harness. Even had them in a hard case when I flew to Africa this past may, even in my carry on.
Sorry for the long response.
Trevor
Tract Optics
Tract_Optics
Well-known member
Denco,
Appreciate the kind words and your business. Looking forward to reading your review and thoughts! Feel free to shoot over any questions or coments.
Trevor
Tract Optics
No problem. Your youtube video's on the Tract's are well done. I will honestly post any QA issues I have with the Trac's and what I personally think of them. I have plenty of different cases so that is not a problem for me. I have a lot of these Tamrac binocular cases I bought for about $8 a piece.
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Many things in life depend on this Den. Some of them can be solved by consuming about one third of the previous night's consumption before breakfast. B
Unfortunately, most things only get worse when you do this for example driving tests or star tests or posting on Bird Forum.
A better idea is a bucket of water left outside to cool off overnight and then, in the morning, pour it straight over your head. After first checking it for Skunks of course.
Lee
B
I just noticed a marked difference in my ability to hold a 10x depending on my BAL. Maybe if I reach a certain threshold I will become steadier. I am going test that theory out. I am headed down to the pub.BMany things in life depend on this Den. Some of them can be solved by consuming about one third of the previous night's consumption before breakfast. B
Unfortunately, most things only get worse when you do this for example driving tests or star tests or posting on Bird Forum.
A better idea is a bucket of water left outside to cool off overnight and then, in the morning, pour it straight over your head. After first checking it for Skunks of course.
Lee
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