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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Do I need more ISO to get sharper photo? (1 Viewer)

Yep, you want to keep shutter speed up, even with IS.

There's no hard and fast rule about this. If you've got good handholding technique, 1/200 might be plenty for consistent sharpness on (say) perched birds), but as a matter of principle, higher shutter speeds always improve your chances.

There are two "official" shutter speed rules of thumb. The first, "traditional" formula is:

1/focal length - so with a 400mm lens you would aim for a shutter speed of at least 1/400,

But some people argue that the "crop factor" should be taken into account, in which case the formula should be:

1/(focal length * 1.6) - which would indicate a shutter speed of 1/640 for the same 400mm lens.

Neither are cast in stone though. As I say, good technique and/or a stable platform can significantly mitigate the risk of a low shutter speed.
 
Don't be afraid of bumping the ISO up to 800, 1600 - even 3200. It's possible to do something about high-ISO noise in any image. Motion blur is impossible to fix.
 
Keith Reeder said:
But some people argue that the "crop factor" should be taken into account, in which case the formula should be:

1/(focal length * 1.6) - which would indicate a shutter speed of 1/640 for the same 400mm lens.

Neither are cast in stone though. As I say, good technique and/or a stable platform can significantly mitigate the risk of a low shutter speed.
Click to expand...
That guideline (which is all it is) is intended to apply for a 10" print produced from an uncropped image for viewing from 12" away. The crop factor is significant, but so are the other parameters. Pixel peeping changes the game substantially, as does making big crops in software.

For an image from a 7D viewed at 100% on a monitor I'd suggest multiplying the speed in the that formula by about 4X for hand held shooting without IS. In other words, for a 7D and 400mm lens I'd aim for 1/2500 as a preferred minimum. Slower speeds might get you the desired results, but perhaps less frequently. If you are more interested in producing quality images, without pixel peeping them to death then you may not need to shoot that fast, but examine the files closely (e.g. on a monitor at 100%) and the warts might show through.
 
bulos said:
I have 2 Canon bodies a 20D and a 40D and I try not to go over 400 ISO until late in the day and I normally have my Vivitar 285 with home made beamer on 1/2 power.
Click to expand...

Hi Bulos,

This is going off post, but your comments re the use of a Vivitar 285 flashgun with the 20D + 40D really caught my eye, as this is exactly the same hardware that I have.
I have been afraid to use the 285 with either camera in case they were incompatible and I "blew" the camera's circuits which someone on this site said was a possibility. I emailed Vivitar to ask for advice but never got a reply. So, please tell me how you use the set up - do you use the hot shoe or is the connection by cable? Any info will be most gratefully received as I really do want to play around with flash, but fear for my cameras.

Thanks in advance.

Adrian

PS PM me if you feel others may not be interested.
 
Does no one here use flash ?

My metz 45-CL4 rarely comes off my camera.

I use ASA (ISO) 200 for quality, fill flash and a speed ranging from 1/60th to 1/25th of a second, even in daylight.

I have used flash for over thirty years, always hammerhead, and am now teaching my son to use it whenever possible, remember 1/20,000 of a secon duration from a good flash beats 1/8000 from a camera.
 
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I use an ancient Vivitar 285 with a Metz voltage reducer on my Canon fdigital bodies and a home made beamer. Everything is set manually on the fly and usually on a bright day 1/250th at f11 is my starting point. I like to shoot at twilight at much slower speeds with just a tad of fill to balance the fill. A few exposures in rapid succession with the old Vivitar at 1/16th usually yields some real sharp ones even at 1/30th. Most all of the time I am at ISO 400.
 

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bulos said:
I use an ancient Vivitar 285 with a Metz voltage reducer on my Canon fdigital bodies and a home made beamer. Everything is set manually on the fly and usually on a bright day 1/250th at f11 is my starting point. I like to shoot at twilight at much slower speeds with just a tad of fill to balance the fill. A few exposures in rapid succession with the old Vivitar at 1/16th usually yields some real sharp ones even at 1/30th. Most all of the time I am at ISO 400.
Click to expand...

Ok, Nice one, show off.

It is photos like this from others thatmake me want to give up :(
 
Boy George said:
I have been afraid to use the 285 with either camera in case they were incompatible and I "blew" the camera's circuits which someone on this site said was a possibility. I emailed Vivitar to ask for advice but never got a reply. So, please tell me how you use the set up - do you use the hot shoe or is the connection by cable? Any info will be most gratefully received as I really do want to play around with flash, but fear for my cameras.
Click to expand...

A simple and cheap solution is to use one of the radio flash triggers like this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Channel-Wirel...=Camera_Flash_Accessories&hash=item3f07ac32c4

You will loose TTL control of the flash -if your old flash would support this in the first place-, but there is no risk for the hardware to get electrocuted by high trigger voltage from the flash. An added bonus is that these triggers open up many more options to set-up flash units closer to the subject while keeping distance with the camera (i.e. feeder shoots).

Ulli
 
Boy George said:
Hi Bulos,

I have been afraid to use the 285 with either camera in case they were incompatible and I "blew" the camera's circuits which someone on this site said was a possibility. I emailed Vivitar to ask for advice but never got a reply. So, please tell me how you use the set up
Click to expand...



I erroneously referred to it as Metz Voltage reducer what I meant to say was Wein Cell SAFE SYNC HSHS - Flash adapter
Google it.
Not only will it allow for mounting directly to the hot show it also has a PC connection that will accept off camera mounting.
 
Hi Bob
These are my thoughts and not everyone will or may agree. :)

Sharp images are the result of good glass, light (preferably) and good technique. Technique refers to both your photographic skills and post processing of the image(s). I believe getting the exposures right (and I mean histogram leaning to the right without blowing highlights) will help reduce noise in high ISO images for starters. Not sure if you have used this focal length ever before, but as Keith mentioned with the 1.6x crop factor, the equivalent focal length is something like 640mm, so the smallest movement when holding camera/lens will translate to the sensor, thus make unsharp images. Not to worry, IS is your friend, as is building your hand holding technique (or using camera supports) and in time you will easily get shots at those shutter speeds and focal lengths, even when hand holding. Of course, the first rule for me would be to get as fast a shutter speed as possible (except if you want to show some movement specifically). If in doubt, increasing ISO would be the first thing for me to capture the image and that's when exposure technique (digital exposure) will be important to reduce noise in camera for starters. In any of the bodies other than the 1D series the intermittent ISOs are not true values, but are processor generated so may not give you as good a result as using whole values like 200,400,800 and so on. Don't be shy to keep at it and as others said a little bit of noise in a SHARP shot is far more desirable (and manageable during the PP) than an unsharp, clean shot. Hope I didn't crap on too much here from Oz. :) Best wishes.
 
I shot film for a great many years, what does ISO (asa) have to do with sharpness, nothing that I remember, sharpness comes from good focus, quality lenses and the correct shuter speed, iso (asa) is related to grain, a good slow film kodachrome 25 was all one would use if the best was required but it was slow needing good light, the average user would rely on 100-200 asa for daily use, 400 asa and becoming grainy for dull/overcast and 800+ grainy for dull or indoor, this is simplistic I know.

Surely to a degree the same applies to DSLR's, though to a lesser extent these days with modern chips, want grain free 200asa (iso) want dull light 3200 but showing grain, but nothing to do with "sharpness".
 
BodyResults said:
Mr Birdman,

Good tips here.

With regard to your iso comment I've seen tests that show the whole iso may vary from differnt models. Some test of the Canon 7D seem to indicate 160, 320, 640, 1250 etc are the cleanest iso and the intermediate values are interpreted from those and slightly noiser.

Here is just one on many results on a query that show test results.
http://marvelsfilm.wordpress.com/2009/10/10/canon-7d-noise-and-iso-test/
Click to expand...

Yes, grain, not sharpness.
 
JSER said:
I shot film for a great many years, what does ISO (asa) have to do with sharpness, nothing that I remember, sharpness comes from good focus, quality lenses and the correct shuter speed, iso (asa) is related to grain, a good slow film kodachrome 25 was all one would use if the best was required but it was slow needing good light, the average user would rely on 100-200 asa for daily use, 400 asa and becoming grainy for dull/overcast and 800+ grainy for dull or indoor, this is simplistic I know.

Surely to a degree the same applies to DSLR's, though to a lesser extent these days with modern chips, want grain free 200asa (iso) want dull light 3200 but showing grain, but nothing to do with "sharpness".
Click to expand...

Proper exposure requires the adjustment of three variables, aperture, shutter speed and ISO (for digital). As the subject changes and/or the available light many times a person might need to adjust all three. In that way ISO is a factor in getting a properly exposed sharp image.

For example, shooting a large static bird in full light will not require a high shutter speed and can be done with a low ISO. Smaller jittery birds need a higher shutter speed for sharpness. Also, birds in flight will need higher shutter speed. In order to get that higher shutter speed you either need a wider aperture or higher ISO. Many times a wider aperture is not possible so the only option is to increase the ISO to get the higher shutter speed to get a sharp image.

Similar logic could be applied when the light drops say at dusk or in shaded areas. You don’t need a higher shutter speed but to keep proper exposure and still use the same shutter speed (without a flash) many times people will use higher ISO.

That is how I see ISO relating to sharpness in bird photography.
 
Yes but ISO in itself has nil to do with sharpness, it is simply a means to an end, low asa fine grain (minimal noise) high asa high grain (high noise), it is the shutter speed, apateur and focus that makes for sharpness in a photograph.

Put simply.

Place a rose 5' from the camera, mount the camera on a pod, focus, use 100asa (iso) and adjust the ap/shutter accordingly, take the photograph, now use 6,400 asa (iso) adjust the ap/shutter again and take the photo, NO difference in sharpness but you will see unwanted grain in the 6400. In fact the grain will detract from the quality of the photograph.

Of course you would not shopot a bird in flight at 100 asa, neither would you shoot a landscape at 6,400.
 
I don't see any practical disagreement here in terms of advice on how to get good pictures as nobody has suggested that increasing ISO will, in itself, increase sharpness. It's the possibility of using a faster shutter speed that a higher ISO allows that may result in a sharper picture.
 
Sorry Bodyresults...
I am speaking from my own experience and unfortunately I use very old cameras. Also some threads I read on NSN and I think BPN by tech head wildlife photographers. Thanks for the link. Certainly interesting reading. :)
 
I regularly shoot at ISO 800 and above hand-held with a 300mm f/2.8 IS - I can get sharp images at 1/20th. This was ISO 1250, 1/20 @ f/2.8, FF - 2 2/3
 

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