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Difficult species pairs (1 Viewer)

Andrew Whitehouse

Professor of Listening
Supporter
Scotland
A few other threads recently have discussed species pairs or groups that cause many of us identification headaches as it were. So which pairs or groups do you have particular trouble with? I'd be particularly interested in ones that are perhaps less obvious or that are not dealt with in much detail in field guides. Are there species that you find it hard to separate even though you've read everything you can on them and see them often enough? The sort of "Grrrr, this should be easy!!!" birds that really do your head in. Any ID tips on difficult pairs would obviously be welcomed.

Just to start things off, I spent much of yesterday afternoon peering out onto a rather gloomy Largo Bay trying to work out if I was seeing Slavonian Grebes or Red-necked Grebes. Happily I was looking at both (24 of the former and 13 of the latter). I often find these two very hard to separate even though I see Slavs quite regularly and Red-necked fairly often. Slavs are easy enough when they're nice and clean cut and black and white but you get those dusky birds and birds in moult. When you can't assess the size very easily these can look very like a Red-necked, both on plumage and jizz (so even Spud and Jane might find them tricky?). This is before we even bring Black-necked Grebes etc into the equation.
 
I have lost all confidence with Black and White Flycatchers...excluding obvious adult males. I've seen too many with ambiguous or mixed characteristics!

Agree with you on the grebes....RN and Slav can be surprisingly hard. I've always have trouble with BN/slav since here they are nearly always too far away to see any detail. Slavs are possible in flight since you can be sure you have seen a forewing patch...but Black necks are tougher... not seeing a feature is rather harder to be sure of. I got really frustrated with a bird off here in Sept. It looked BN but I couldn't be 100% certain and it was a new species for the house. To make it worse there was a BN seen of Hilbre on the same days! Fortunately there was a nice close one last week.
 
I know this is going to show me up even more than normal... but it's Birds of Prey for me.

Never mind your tertial this, and your supercilium that or your hindclaw other...

... if it hovers - Kestrel

... if it's big - Buzzard

... if it's got a bell - Harris Hawk ;)

And really it's as simple, and as bad as that.

I obviously don't see enough of them!
 
I'd agree that the grebes can be tricky, especially given the views you often get.

I'm constantly confused by Marsh and Willow Tits, even with good views, especially because of the number of individuals that show features that field guides describe as typical of the other species or lack the features they should show.

Jizz differences are sometimes obvious, sometimes much less so, especially as my familiarity with the declining Willow Tit decreases year by year.

I've seen several competent birders get these wrong based on their appearance - the truth only becoming apparent when they call.

Perhaps it's only as Willow Tits decline further that the seriousness of this problem will come to the fore.

Spud
 
Did I read...or imagine a paper recently suggesting that actually Willow tit in the UK might acually be a race of Marsh tit, or was it the other way round?

It not a problem here, its 8 years since I saw either!
 
Sand Martin and House Martin

May sound silly, but how do you tell them apart when they're silhouetted dots 400m overhead against a bright blue sky? (forget the brown breast band on Sand - invisible at that range).

Being able to tell like this is the only way I can get passage Sand Martin on my local patch year list, they almost never fly low there

Michael
 
I've been trying to get to grips with Dowitchers and even Sibley says best identified by flight calls.
I was looking at some yesterday,at long scope range and couldn't differentiate as they didn't fly or call!
The best clue I have is that the Short-billed is on the Merritt Island list of birds(common this time of year),whereas the Long-billed is not.
 
At least here in Germany marsh and willow tit, they are friendly enough to vocalize a lot, and then it is quite easy-like them holding up their identity card and waving with it. It s easy also for people like me then who are not good in the voices.
But just this year I head a few birds that where not so friendly and the plumage details were somehow in between...
Big falcons can also be a real pain, allthough part of this is because I don´t see them often- except peregrine, which is moderately"common"- not really common but I think you might know what I mean.
And don´t talk to me of exotic pipits....
 
I've seen definite Marsh Tits (by call, and in an area with no Willow records) with a distinct pale secondary panel . . .

Yes!, so have I, and I've seen calling willow Tits with glossy looking crowns and little 'Hitler' moustaches.

Of course the difficulties of several species pairs are well known and much discussed but everyone seems to bury their heads in the sand when the Marsh vs Willow thing comes up. If either was really rare we'd probably have a far better understanding by now!

Spud
 
Grey geese can be a laugh too. I've been at the log call on Fair Isle when the same flock of 72 birds was called as 4 species, by some very eminent birders.
 
I can't be bothered with autumn Reed/Marsh Warbler- far too hard. Had one this autumn on The Lizard - probably a Reed but who knows.

As for Willow/Marsh Tits I have seen a few (calling) Marsh with wing panels and there is a wacky looking Willow with a shiny cap at the Ouse Washes at the moment (pics here http://www.cambridgebirdclub.org.uk/photos.htm).

When I first started visiting the coast as a mega-beginner I remember getting annoyed that there didn't seem to be any difference between Knot and Grey Plover in winter unless you could see the armpits! Always important to remember what it feels like to be that unfamiliar with a bird.

I think there is a good deal of difficulty with Pied/White Wagtail (ssp. I know) and someone has to mention Crossbills soon.
 
I struggle with a few "twin" species. I enjoy birding in Spain but struggle with Thekla lark/Crested lark. Also get caught out with Spanish "summer" kites in moult when I struggle at times with Red & Black. And of course here in Scotland the vexing question of "Whit's that Crossbill Hamish?"
 
logos said:
I'm constantly confused by Marsh and Willow Tits.....
I've seen several competent birders get these wrong based on their appearance - the truth only becoming apparent when they call.
Then again it's important to know the difference between a Willow Tit's call and a Marsh Tit going "eez-eez-eez". We don't get Willow Tits around Plymouth, yet there were several years when the Devon Bird Report carried regular records of the species at one particular site. I'm pretty certain I know the birds that were being reported and they were certainly Marshies. This isolated population seems to have died out around the time we had a change of bird recorder!

Jason
 
Michael Frankis said:
Sand Martin and House Martin

May sound silly, but how do you tell them apart when they're silhouetted dots 400m overhead against a bright blue sky? (forget the brown breast band on Sand - invisible at that range).

Being able to tell like this is the only way I can get passage Sand Martin on my local patch year list, they almost never fly low there

Michael

As a regular obersever of birds burnt against a bright sky at x100m. I agree with you. There is something a little lighter and pointier about SM though

I should have included Large white-headed Gulls. My problem is I have so many of the things to deal with... 2-7000 are not unexpected. I don't have the will power to look for more than obvious white-wings.
 
Hen Harrier & Marsh Harrier (Female's at a distance)
Merlin & Male Sparrowhawk.
Bewicks & Whooper Swan.

CJ
 
Howdy Folks

autumn Marsh/Reed
redpolls - easy on paper not in the field though!
winter dowitchers
Pintail and Swinhoe's Snipe
female Sunbirds Ouch!

er....Honey Buzz and Common Buzz o:)
er...Common Buzz and about six other species o:) o:)
er.....tree Pipit and Meadow Pipit :eek!:
er.......Rock Pipit and Meadow Pipit (sorry Water Pipit!) apologies Jane!

er....Rock Pipit and Rock Thrush ( :h?: )

better go I think
 
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