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Nikon ED50A bridging the gap (1 Viewer)

looksharp65

looksharp65

Well-known member
Sweden
I will get myself a Nikon ED50A to bring everywere I take my smaller binoculars.

Not that I am not content with the Pentax 65, but I will use the Nikon scope in a markedly different way. The Pentax delivers wonderful views and rests on a sturdy tripod, which is sort of a problem as I don't always bring it, though the scope is quite small.

My intention is to lessen the visual and psychological gap between my binoculars and the scope. The Nikon will be used for really fast action, so I will use the 13-30x zoom.

The scope will be used with a monopod + ballhead.
A stabilizing bracket made from a bike bar end eliminates horizontal movement when I put my foot on it.

When the monopod is collapsed, that bracket can be held by the left hand.
When using the scope for hawking, the ballhead is set not to lock, but to move with high friction. To follow a bird, both hands hold the scope to twist it vertically. The monopod hangs below the scope, and while moving towards equilibrium its mass serves as a stabilizer.

It really works! With my Pentax and 32x magnification, I would say the image shake is similar to hand-holding an 8x binocular.

//L
 
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The idea seems very promising. Any pictures?

Have you considered using a pistol grip?
The monopod + brace must double the weight and bulk of the little ED50.
 
That reminds me of an experiment I've been meaning to try. I have damping rods and flexible couplings left over from my target archery days which I think might work well in the way you describe. It's been on hold as I don't have any UNC/AF Taps and Dies to make up an adaptor. I'll see if I can borrow some.

David
 
The nikon Zoom is not forgiving with eye placement,and it FOV is much more smaller proportionally than any 8x binocular ,even at low power ..Is a great scope,in terms of size -performance though...
Your concept sounds interesteing, but maybe You would be better with a low power ,WF eyepiece ,like the 16X DS ,that may offer a bit more of Eye Relief as well....that eyepiece in a straigh configuration scope is maybe more hand heldable or could work better for monopod solutions,but maybe with your idea the angled would work as well..
good luck
 
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typo said:
That reminds me of an experiment I've been meaning to try. I have damping rods and flexible couplings left over from my target archery days which I think might work well in the way you describe. It's been on hold as I don't have any UNC/AF Taps and Dies to make up an adaptor. I'll see if I can borrow some.

David
Click to expand...

Sounds great, David. Can you post a photo when you have it set up?
 
mayoayo said:
The nikon Zoom is not forgiving with eye placement,and it FOV is much more smaller proportionally than any 8x binocular ,even at low power ..Is a great scope,in terms of size -performance though...
Your concept sounds interesteing, but maybe You would be better with a low power ,WF eyepiece ,like the 16X DS ,that may offer a bit more of Eye Relief as well....that eyepiece in a straigh configuration scope is maybe more hand heldable or could work better for monopod solutions,but maybe with your idea the angled would work as well..
good luck
Click to expand...

Thanks!
I intended to buy a cheaper mini scope, and I could stretch to the Minox MD50W, but I was also tempted to try the Yukon Firefall 12-36x50.
But when I found that my new Hawke bin was a fiasco (going back), I suddenly had a lot more money to spend.

My intention is to overcome some of the limitations that follows with bringing a 6.5x binocular, the scope will be used like it were hand-held, though it has a versatile support system.
Versatility is the key word here - I would not want to be stuck with only low or high magnification. The zoom adds to the versatility I'm after, even though I'm aware of the downside of the zooms. The only fixed eyepiece I could consider would be the 20x. If I hate the zoom, I will get the 20x.
For tripod-supported, stationary scoping I also prefer fixed focal lengths, and I'm very happy with my Pentax.

Angled or straight? Well, I'm too tall to use a straight scope on my monopod.
And my Pentax is angled, and it works perfect with the hanging monopod.
I doubt a straight one would be as good there, because I would have to raise it higher and lose the support of my elbows on my chest.
 
etudiant said:
The idea seems very promising. Any pictures?
Click to expand...
Later on.

etudiant said:
Have you considered using a pistol grip?
Click to expand...
It's difficult for me to understand why it would be steadier than hand-holding the scope. If I do that, the front end rests in my left hand while the right hand focuses, zooms and stabilizes. Quite flimsy.
But a pistol grip could scarcely add any stability, on the contrary the point of attachment, close to the center of the scope, would act as the center of a rotary movement, i.e. wobbling.

etudiant said:
The monopod + brace must double the weight and bulk of the little ED50.
Click to expand...
No kidding! I would say it quadruples it. :)
It's a Manfrotto 079B and the ballhead is not light, either.
Weight is part of the stabilization and I don't think I will trade it for a lighter monopod.

//L
 
I find a pistol grip is steadier than hand holding the scope. Especially with an angled scope you can hold your arms into your chest in a two hand pistol grip. The other grip is one hand on the pistol grip the other on the top of the scope with a finger to focus. Both work well for me. Even with my straight scopes I find the pistol grip works better than hand holding.

In terms of stability (i.e. reduce amplitude and frequency of motion) I find

tripod > monopole > shoulder-mount > pistol grip > hand-held

You could use a lighter monopole and add a weight at the end. It's the moment arm that stabilizes the bin (like Steadicam).

There is also the piece of string approach too: tension a piece of string from the scope to your foot. It' reduce shake in "pitch" (up down) direction.
 
mayoayo said:
The nikon Zoom is not forgiving with eye placement,and it FOV is much more smaller proportionally than any 8x binocular ,even at low power ..Is a great scope,in terms of size -performance though...
Your concept sounds interesteing, but maybe You would be better with a low power ,WF eyepiece ,like the 16X DS ,that may offer a bit more of Eye Relief as well....that eyepiece in a straigh configuration scope is maybe more hand heldable or could work better for monopod solutions,but maybe with your idea the angled would work as well..
good luck
Click to expand...

The problem with the ED50 is the Nikon EPs weren't really selected with the 50 in mind. So the end up being too low or too high rather than being "Goldilocks".

The ideal would be: more magnification than your bins to make a difference (that's why you are carrying the scope) but not so much that shoulder mount/pistol grips/monopoles mounting becomes a problem.

Along with the "ideal" exit pupil size (2mm to 2.5mm).

For the exit pupil you want 20x to 25x which would be ideal for the "enough power"

The wide 27x is just a little too high but not by much. But the exit pupil is a bit on the small side. But for quick looks rather than scanning that should be OK. I think that's why quite a few people (AP, Horokuru, Sancho and others) seem to be happy with it.

But having an option between 20x and 25x would have been best but the EPs don't accommodate that.
 
Graham Osborne said:
Sounds like a neat set up, but how will you carry/stow the scope when using your binoculars? Shoulder strap?
Click to expand...

In fact, my Fury is very easy to use one-handed...During transportation I could keep it in my backpack. For prolonged binocular viewing, it's very easy to put the scope down on the ground.
 
Kevin Purcell said:
I find a pistol grip is steadier than hand holding the scope. Especially with an angled scope you can hold your arms into your chest in a two hand pistol grip. The other grip is one hand on the pistol grip the other on the top of the scope with a finger to focus. Both work well for me. Even with my straight scopes I find the pistol grip works better than hand holding.

In terms of stability (i.e. reduce amplitude and frequency of motion) I find

tripod > monopole > shoulder-mount > pistol grip > hand-held

You could use a lighter monopole and add a weight at the end. It's the moment arm that stabilizes the bin (like Steadicam).

There is also the piece of string approach too: tension a piece of string from the scope to your foot. It' reduce shake in "pitch" (up down) direction.
Click to expand...

That's very interesting! Instinctively I had the idea of using a lighter monopod with a heavy (lead-filled?) side bracket/weight.
Anyway, your findings seem to confirm that an enhanced monopod set is the way to go for me.
Using the Manfrotto is not a problem for me, though tremendously disproportionate to the tiny scope, it is very useful and steady.
 
Kevin Purcell said:
having an option between 20x and 25x would have been best but the EPs don't accommodate that.
Click to expand...


Kevin...You mean that a 22X WA would have been great ,but the 20X WA is not ?....


I mentioned the 16X DS because gives a larger exit pupil,so its easier to place ,plus compromises a bit magnification in the advantage of steadiness....

I think one of the digi manfrotto tripods,758B or its equivalent should be as easy to set and light as the monopòd,and much more versatile(your main concern),since you can even use your binos to scan,while having the scope ready ...You can even put a rubber band around the legs and use as a monopod if you want!...I strongly recommend a sighting devide,such a red dot finder,if fast action is also primordial,..I was able to attach one with cable ties to a Nikon ED50 and worked great..(sitting at the end of the tube,the prism housing is too irregular a surface to allow this)
 
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looksharp65 said:
That's very interesting! Instinctively I had the idea of using a lighter monopod with a heavy (lead-filled?) side bracket/weight.
Anyway, your findings seem to confirm that an enhanced monopod set is the way to go for me..
Click to expand...

I really don't get why folks even buy the ED50 if they are going to weigh it down with a heavy mount and head and monopods are less than optimal.

I use the sub-1kg Velbon Ultra Maxi L/ I switched out the cheapy 3-way panhead for an even lighter 130g QHD-41Q ball head and it works PERFECT. When I really want to go light and think I might have to handhold, I use the Gorillapod SLR zoom instead of a tripod.
 
mayoayo said:
Kevin...You mean that a 22X WA would have been great ,but the 20X WA is not ?....
Click to expand...

Ah, my bad ... there is a perfect 20x EP MC for the ED 50. I was thinkinking here wasn't another in the middle range other than the (otherwise perfect) but that 16x is not recommended 24x/30x wide MC though there are reports of folks here using it without noticing vignetting and Nikon doesn't seem to have any problems with the DS version on the ED 50.

http://www.nikon.com/products/sportoptics/lineup/scopes/mc/index.htm

I don't know how I missed that EP. Can you buy them anywhere? ;)

Monopods are even lighter than that tripod you describe and easier to setup and take down and carry that's why people use them. With good style they work fine up to 30x. More difficult to share though so better for the solo birder. For sharing though the Velbon tripod seems like a good choice.

Each to his own.
 
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The vog here on the Big Island is limiting my 13-40x MCII zoom so I am using the 20x Wide MC now for whale watching. Nice companion to my Canon 18x50IS too.
 
RJM said:
I really don't get why folks even buy the ED50 if they are going to weigh it down with a heavy mount and head and monopods are less than optimal.

I use the sub-1kg Velbon Ultra Maxi L/ I switched out the cheapy 3-way panhead for an even lighter 130g QHD-41Q ball head and it works PERFECT. When I really want to go light and think I might have to handhold, I use the Gorillapod SLR zoom instead of a tripod.
Click to expand...

"Perfect" equals "ideal" in your case. Congratulations! But what is perfect? I could buy a 10" mirror scope and get incredible views, but the lack of portability will outweigh its beautiful view.
Every choice is a matter of compromise, and all of us don't tend to reach the same solution.

My other scope is not very hefty, but I needed a stable tripod for it because of my length and the strong winds here at the coast.
I have tried my solution with the not-so-heavy-Pentax, and my ideas are useful. The reason I chose a monopod-based stabilization solution was the need for versatility, speed and low bulk. If I were to use another tripod, I could as well stick with my other scope. And if the monopod (or tripod) is too short, too lightweight, too thin or not enough rigid, it doesn't fill its purpose. Then it is just a needless burden whatsoever its weight.
 
...Opticron fans could use the MM2 or GS52 in a similar way, I think, though the GS52 is perhaps too bulky for quick use.
 
Cleme said:
...Opticron fans could use the MM2 or GS52 in a similar way, I think, though the GS52 is perhaps too bulky for quick use.
Click to expand...

The GS52 is a very nice scope. But the tripod thread is so near the front end of the scope that I think "the hanging monopod" idea would not be practicable - simply because there is too little space for the front hand.
 
looksharp65 said:
My other scope is not very hefty, but I needed a stable tripod for it because of my length and the strong winds here at the coast.
I have tried my solution with the not-so-heavy-Pentax, and my ideas are useful. The reason I chose a monopod-based stabilization solution was the need for versatility, speed and low bulk.
Click to expand...

This kit is tall enough for my 187cm height when the legs and center column is fully extended. I think it weighs ~700g with the ball head but I added the strap and some camo tape to make it easier to carry and hold in the cold.

Plenty windy in Japan so added a hook to hang my water bottle or fanny pack. If it is really windy I'll add a stone bag for stability.

I want to be hands free to drink or eat my sandwich, to share views, consult my guide book or a myriad of other tasks. A monopod lacks this "versatility".

I have used the string gadget too with great success, but prefer the Gorillapod for ultimate lightweight flexibility.
 

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