8x42 binoculars choices? (1 Viewer)

Hi,

I am interested in a pair of binoculars and I figured this would be the best place to ask. I'll be the first to admit I don't know a whole lot about binoculars, but people in general seem to recommend to use 8x magnifiers.

In researching binoculars, a lot of people seem to like the Zen Ray Optics, Carson, et cetera, but it seems like all of them just rebrand the same binoculars from Kunming. So I looked on ebay looking to find some native Chinese brands, and found some Shuntu 8x42 ED binoculars, which look exactly like a pair of Zen Ray ED2 binoculars, but for $280 as opposed to $420. Would such a binocular be a good choice? The specs seem like they are identical. There's a number of them available, and they all look like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-...186344?hash=item5b24aaa228:g:VlsAAOSwxfNXNr6i

Also, I came across a company Oberwerk, that advertises its connection to some of these same Chinese companies. I was looking at their Sport ED 8x42 models for $300 but can't seem to find any review of them, other than one from Ken Rockwell. Anybody have any opinion on them and how they compare to others? According to Oberwerk they are a great value and have better QC because they are involved in the manufacturing, but I think every company says that...

Thank you!

Stick with the BIG brand names if you can....Zeiss Swarovski OR Leica...in your price range the only binocular available is the Zeiss Terra....they are as good as any of the binoculars you have mentioned and you have Zeiss standing behind them with their service and warranty....makes it almost a no brainer....

If you have to move to a lower tier look at the Minox line.....

Hi,

first of all, welcome to birdforum and you have indeed found the right place!

Regarding buying a pair of cheap roof bins directly from china - that's quite bold... I'd only consider chinese roof bins if I could test them and kindly ask the dealer to box up the pair I tested - or at least could easily send them back in case of a lemon. But that's just me, a porro snob...

Also, it would be helpful to have some more info on the intended use, if you want to or have to use glasses while using a pair of bins (you have to if you have astigmatism or a very strong prescription) and the price range.

And yes, 8x is the most common magnification for birding as it is the highest magnification to be easily handheld for most. 8x42 is a full sized pair of bins which will work in most conditions, but not the lightest pair to use.

Joachim

You don't really need 8x42's for birding. I would recommend porro's in that price range. I would agree that unknown Chinese brand roofs are really risky. I guarantee if you can live with 14mm ER or don't wear glasses you will be much happier with these. They are made in Japan and are much higher quality than what you are looking at.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Binoc...404511?hash=item2a69e77b5f:g:zl0AAOSwqBJXWet6

Check out Eagle Optics selection of 8x42 binoculars here; prices are listed. Also listed are a large number of 8x32 binoculars which you might like better.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars?magnification_max=9.0&magnification_min=8.0

You will find that they have user reviews with them. Note that the Zeiss Terra 8x42 mentioned above (which is on sale) has 50 reviews averaging 5 stars.

Eagle Optics also has a 30 day return policy which you can read about in their website. They also have good articles on understanding optics. You can download their Optics Guide.


Bob

I also welcome you to the forum - good to have you drop in and, yes, you've come to the right place for advice. You'll get plenty (we're an opinionated bunch) - perhaps some of it conflicting, but all well-intentioned.

I'd agree with earlier posters that I'd want both a good manufacturer's warranty and to purchase from a seller with a good (more: excellent) returns policy if I were buying a pair of binoculars sight-unseen. For me, that would probably mean a 'proper' retailer (whether through an eBay store or not) rather than a random individual eBay seller. Your appetite for risk might vary from this.

I'll also put in a good word for the Zeiss Terra ED 8x42 - I've found that mine suit me very well. They're also on the small and light-weight side for a full-size binocular (something I appreciate). They are available from a range of on-line retailers with near-faultless reputations for great customer service and Zeiss is a big name that provides a good warranty. Two words of caution though... Firstly, not everyone gets along with the full-size Terras as I do - around here opinions are somewhat mixed. Secondly, the focus adjustment is fast (that is, quite small movements make for large focus adjustments). This doesn't bother me (in fact I like it), but some really hate that.

...Mike

Thanks for the responses! I'll have to look over some of the options now.

I basically just wanted to get a set of binoculars for "general use." Sometimes looking at birds, sometimes off in the distance, or maybe for travel. I've never really been birding or have used any binoculars worth more than $20. However, I figured that birders would have some pretty good opinions on binoculars, so here I am

I was looking at Chinese binoculars because I thought that a lot of American companies just seemed to be rebranding Chinese lens designs and calling it their own...so if the American company's binoculars have really good reviews, then the Chinese brand that makes the same exact lens must be the same, no? I guess I just don't like paying for branding/marketing. Besides, since I am new to binoculars I don't recognize any of the brands, with the exception of Zeiss and Leica.

Mike, you like the Zeiss Terra ED 8x42...are the 10x42 any good as well? Or is it too much magnification?

Do you lose a lot of light gathering ability with a 32 vs. a 42?

Thanks!

new897 said:

Mike, you like the Zeiss Terra ED 8x42...are the 10x42 any good as well? Or is it too much magnification?

Do you lose a lot of light gathering ability with a 32 vs. a 42?

Click to expand...

I'd guess the 10x42 Terras are probably pretty good as well, but can't say from personal experience. I generally prefer an 8x to a 10x - for the wider angle of view (all else being equal), the reduction in effect of hand-shake and the wider exit pupil size (which makes for a more comfortable view; again all else being equal).

That having been said, my most-used bins are 8x32s (with 4mm exit pupil size) - mainly because of the smaller size and lighter weight. While the light-gathering from larger objectives helps in low light around dawn and dusk (or in other low-light circumstances) I find 8x30something bins work just fine the vast majority of the time. If I did a lot of early or late viewing, or lurked in dark rainforests or whatever, then I might think differently.

If I were looking for an 8x30ish bin around your price range I'd likely opt for a pair of the forum-favourite Sightron SII Blue Sky 8x32s shown in this very long thread:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=211793

Otherwise, if I were after best bang-for-buck, could stretch the price a bit and didn't mind porro-prism bins I'd probably go with the Nikon EII 8x30s Dennis recommended above. I have and use both the Sightrons and the Nikons - they are very good binoculars which provide excellent value.

...Mike

Hi,

you are right, a lot of chinese bins are branded by big name companies like Nikon or even Zeiss.
The difference between buying one of those or an identical looking example directly from a chinese seller is the fact that the companies have a reputation to loose and will try their best to get some QA implemented.

With chinese seller you don't really know if the bin you get is just a pair as good as the big name one because they let the line running some hours longer or the rejects from said QA program of the big company.

Together with the rather long and cumbersome return process to china in case of a lemon, I'd rather not order expensive optics directly from china. And I do it a lot with cheap electronic parts hard to get elsewhere... but with that a total loss is not a big problem.
And one shouldn't forget duties and tax - over here one can count on packets above 22€ declared worth to be seized by customs and you have to collect them in person at the customs office with rather unfriendly opening times and pay 20-25% of the price plus shipping charge in duties and tax - not sure how that works stateside.

Also if you buy your first pair of bins, you might not really be in a position to correctly judge if the pair you get is great or a lemon and also not all bins work equally well for all users.

So I'd really recommend you go to a Cabelas or another shop and try some bins.

Regarding your question of 8x30 vs 8x40, the 30mm pair will give equal results 95% of the time and be a bit lighter and have a wider field of view.

The Nikon E2 8x30 mentioned above are certainly the best optics you can get for 500 bucks or so but they're not waterproof and don't work well with most glasses. I love mine dearly and they're my most used pair.

Another good and cheap option is the Kowa YF / Leupold Yosemite in 6x30 or 8x30.

The roof bins mentioned will also work as well as the Kowa/Leupold but are more expensive.

Joachim

Welcome to the forum.

Like you, I spent some time trying to figure out who made what. For a while the Japanese manufactures used codes so it was possible to work out who made your Bushnell, Tasco, Sears etc.. but that's long gone. There are very few clues when it comes to Japanese and Chinese companies these days. Those Kunming marketing co-operatives probably represent dozens of individual companies making components and as they point out, identical looking binoculars can contain widely different specified components. Ordering blind is a complete lottery. I'm sure it must be possible to buy excellent binoculars direct from China, but I figure we are better served by using a specialist company to specify the orders, do the importing and QC the results.

Most companies, from Zeiss and Nikon down use third parties to do their manufacturing. Some of those guys come over to the big trade shows in the US and Europe so it's quite easy for a small operator to have binoculars made on the same production line as a famous name, but usually there will be exclusivity deals done over specific designs. No one else has a rebadged Terra or Conquest ED. However, we often discover there are similarities in the physical design, and occasionally optical design that give clues to a common oregin. The price tags can be quite different reflecting development cost, additional QC steps, warranty support, and of course, marketing costs. A presteige name is expensive to create and protect. In my opinion a fancy badge doesn't ensure a better product but there is a mass of advertising that will try to convince you otherwise. Is a Terra better than similarly priced alternatives? It's something that divides opinion here.

Good luck.

David

new897 said:

Thanks for the responses! I'll have to look over some of the options now.

I basically just wanted to get a set of binoculars for "general use." Sometimes looking at birds, sometimes off in the distance, or maybe for travel. I've never really been birding or have used any binoculars worth more than $20. However, I figured that birders would have some pretty good opinions on binoculars, so here I am

I was looking at Chinese binoculars because I thought that a lot of American companies just seemed to be rebranding Chinese lens designs and calling it their own...so if the American company's binoculars have really good reviews, then the Chinese brand that makes the same exact lens must be the same, no? I guess I just don't like paying for branding/marketing. Besides, since I am new to binoculars I don't recognize any of the brands, with the exception of Zeiss and Leica.

Mike, you like the Zeiss Terra ED 8x42...are the 10x42 any good as well? Or is it too much magnification?

Do you lose a lot of light gathering ability with a 32 vs. a 42?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

I have the Terra 10x42....also the 8x32....I use the 10x42 when I know I will be viewing thing at a greater distance....the 8x32 get used most of the time....smaller, lighter, just more convenient to have around....without the added bulk of the 42 or the inherent use problems of the small 8x20 10x25 format....

One of the best bang for you buck binocular brands is Pentax. Check out the SP series for a stunning view, weather and fog proof, and won't break the bank. They hold their own against much more expensive competitors. For general purpose you can go with 8x32 or 8x42 which will serve your needs just fine. The only slight disadvantage is that they have a narrower field of view than some competitors, but probably not enough to offset the clarity, sharpness, and color rendition you get from Pentax glass. They have a great warranty as well.

Thanks for the responses! I hadn't thought of customs/duty or things like that ordering from China...and thanks for explaining about how similar binoculars can perform different from the same company.

I looked at the Sightron thread and it is epically long. Wow. I'll have to take a look at that.

As for Pentax, I actually have a Pentax SLR. Pentax is known to provide cameras that perform well above their price point too, but I didn't know they made binoculars as well.

new897 said:

As for Pentax, I actually have a Pentax SLR. Pentax is known to provide cameras that perform well above their price point too, but I didn't know they made binoculars as well.

Click to expand...

They do and they don't. The Pentax range were rebranded Ricoh a couple of years ago with a priomise they would revitalise the range. They didn't show up at Birdfair last year but apart from the revised Papilio I'm not aware of much happening. The top end models were well regarded, but many of the others in their extensive range failed to excite me. The one exception was the AD 9x32. It's made in the Philippines, we presume by Kenko who also make the Sightron BSII.

David