Hyphens, again... (1 Viewer)

Richard Klim said:

AOU NACC & SACC should establish a JHSC: Joint Hyphenation Sub-Committee (or should that be Joint Hyphenation-Subcommittee?).

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Mysticete said:

Because those proposals might be even more boring than the gender change proposals...

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Richard Klim said:

AOU-SACC Proposal #515 (Remsen, Feb 2012): Remove hyphens from certain English names that do not represent monophyletic groups: "Black-Hawk".

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Snapdragyn said:

Well, the point made in the proposal is incorrect, anyway. The hyphens do not 'have' to be removed because 2 members of the 'group' are not called 'Ground-Dove'. Instead, those 2 members could have their names changed to include 'Ground-Dove'. In fact, as it requires changing fewer names, this would be the more parsimonious solution.

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mb1848 said:

.. make it Aztec Ground Dove.

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Richard Klim said:

AOU-SACC Proposal #530 (Remsen, Jun 2012): Remove hyphens from "Ground-Dove".
Aaaaaarghhhhh!!!
Does anyone still need convincing that AOU's policy on hyphenation is too contrived/complex for even NACC, SACC and Cornell to cope with, let alone everyday non-scientist birders who've never heard of monophyletic groups?

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SACC Proposal #530

Dear Van,

I apologise for being rather facetious on BirdForum about the continuing AOU hyphenation saga. I'm sure you must be even more exasperated than most of us, having to waste so much of your time on such an unproductive matter. But I stand by my description of AOU's policy as "contrived and complex" – any retroactive modification of vernacular names to identify monophyletic groups is surely contrived; and the continuing confusion over the policy's application is surely a consequence of its practical complexity.

You've naturally focused upon achieving consistent hyphenation within the SACC classification (with results that are sometimes potentially confusing and difficult to commit to memory for non-scientists, eg, one species of 'Water Tyrant' and three species of 'Water-Tyrant').

But consider also the efforts to apply AOU-style names to a world list (Clements/eBird). There are numerous examples where a hyphenated group name is not indicative of a monophyletic group – eg, Haliaeetus includes two 'Eagles', three 'Sea-Eagles' and three 'Fish-Eagles', while Ichthyophaga comprises two more 'Fish-Eagles'; and 'Bush-Warbler' is used extensively within both Cettiidae and Locustellidae. It seems that Cornell doesn't fully understand the implications of AOU's policy.

I still don't see why vernacular names must be manipulated to illustrate a tiny minority of monophyletic groups, when most vernacular names impart no such information.

And I don't accept that your examples become unintelligible without hyphens. Working backwards from the terminal noun in the usual manner, Grey Crowned Crane is clearly a crane that's crowned and grey (even when in lower case); whereas a Red-crowned Crane is clearly a crane that's red-crowned – although both become ambiguous when spoken quickly, irrespective of the hyphenation employed. Similarly, Jungle Bush Quail and Shade Bush Warbler make perfectly correct sense working backwards from the terminal noun; whereas Olive-tree Warbler uses hyphenation to prevent interpretation as a tree warbler that's olive-coloured.

Best wishes.
Richard

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Richard Klim said:

AOU-SACC Proposal #530 (Remsen, Jun 2012): Remove hyphens from "Ground-Dove".

Aaaaaarghhhhh!!!

Does anyone still need convincing that AOU's policy on hyphenation is too contrived/complex for even NACC, SACC and Cornell to cope with, let alone everyday non-scientist birders who've never heard of monophyletic groups?

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• In the interests of stability, AOU has decided that a hyphenated group name can apply to a non-monophyletic group provided that it's contained within a single genus. eg, Knipolegus includes a mix of Tyrants and Black-Tyrants, where the Black-Tyrants don't represent a monophyletic group; Thamnophilus includes Antshrikes and Slaty-Antshrikes; Streptopelia includes Doves, Collared-Doves and Turtle-Doves; etc.
  
  
• But where a hyphenated group name is used across multiple genera, it must represent a single monophyletic group and every species within the monophyletic group must be so named. Therefore, Ground-Dove cannot be used due to the presence of Scaled Dove and Inca Dove within the multi-genus monophyletic group concerned.
  There are at least seven other problem cases that AOU intends to address, including Pygmy-Tyrant (distributed across six genera, including non-Pygmy-Tyrants), Hawk-Eagle, Ground-Cuckoo, Brush-Finch...
  
  [NB. Although Cornell (Clements/eBird) uses 'AOU-style' names (exactly following AOU for New World species), as I noted earlier it doesn't follow this rule for Old World species names. Not AOU's problem!]
  
  
• A hyphenated group name can still be used in unhyphenated form for species outside the group concerned. eg, Fluvicola Water-Tyrants, and Drab Water Tyrant; Ninox Hawk-Owls, and Northern Hawk Owl; etc.

Richard Klim said:

...................... including Pygmy-Tyrant (distributed across six genera, including non-Pygmy-Tyrants)

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chris butterworth said:

That's it. I'm turning to drink. :-C :-C :-C

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Richard Klim said:

[*]But where a hyphenated group name is used across multiple genera, it must represent a single monophyletic group and every species within the monophyletic group must be so named. Therefore, Ground-Dove cannot be used due to the presence of Scaled Dove and Inca Dove within the multi-genus monophyletic group concerned.
[/LIST]

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