McMadd
You should see the other bloke...
I do remember construction workers having to walk up the mountain a tad to get a signal...at Labahe...
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2017 Western Palearctic Big Year (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter JeroenVanheuverswyn
- Start date
I do remember construction workers having to walk up the mountain a tad to get a signal...at Labahe...
Maffong
Well-known member
This site and most other sources are overlooking a small, but important change made by D. Mitchell and possibly also H. Shirihai and L. Svensson (I have yet to see their definition):
The boundary in the sahara was shifted one degree from 21° N to 20° N. The change in the avifauna is only very minor, but it makes it easier to use the boundaries in reality. Discussions, which parts of the Banc D'Arguin or of Mauritania are included in the GWP are settled with this definition.
Maffong
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Maffong
Well-known member
I wrote a little piece about the boundaries of the WP and the Greater WP, if anyone is interested
http://thelittlestint.blogspot.de/2018/02/the-boundaries-of-western-palearctic.html
Maffong
Acrocephalus
Well-known member
There is a mistake in the quoted text, the Hala'ib Triangle is administered by Egypt not Sudan.
That said, the WP boundary runs nicely along the Egypt-Sudan border and then goes north-east at this Triangle, is there a reason for doing so (in both old and new versions)?
Maffong
Well-known member
Well spotted! I'll try to integrate this into my next blog post.
The Hala'ib Triangle is excluded from the WP, because of its rather africotropic avifauna. Including it into the WP would boost up the WP list by several species that occur in this area, but don't seem to ever venture out of it like Rosy-patched Shrike and Shining Sunbeam...
nikothomsen
Well-known member
Now that would be a WP blocker!
Maffong
Well-known member
Whoopsie. Sunbird is what I meant of course.
This is what happens when you pick up your birding obsession in South America...
Frenchy
Well-known member
The eastern boundary is better off being the Yenisei river in my view, and then down along the foothills of the major Asian mountain ranges and into Iran. Therefore including most of Central Asia (the deserts and steppes). Avifauna wise, it makes sense. In the game of WP listing, it would certainly be a gamechanger!
Acrocephalus
Well-known member
Thanks! Nice to know that the reason was/is biogeographical. The linked report gives a good overview of the region.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Paul Chapman
Well-known member
I've been meaning to post a thought for a couple of days.
Unless or until another attempt is made, I do not think that we can judge this record.
Whilst, it is suggested that a theoretical 800 was possible last year - and I am yet to be convinced of that - we are not in a position to judge the availability of last year's rarities in comparison to other years.
I remain of the view that the Corvo spectacular was unusual and unlikely to be repeated frequently - so to suggest that would be available ordinarily in other years, I think is flawed - and generally I think that there are less rarities around at the start of this year?
That said, I would agree with the majority of Maffong's tactical suggestions.
All the best
Unless or until another attempt is made, I do not think that we can judge this record.
Whilst, it is suggested that a theoretical 800 was possible last year - and I am yet to be convinced of that - we are not in a position to judge the availability of last year's rarities in comparison to other years.
I remain of the view that the Corvo spectacular was unusual and unlikely to be repeated frequently - so to suggest that would be available ordinarily in other years, I think is flawed - and generally I think that there are less rarities around at the start of this year?
That said, I would agree with the majority of Maffong's tactical suggestions.
All the best
lewis20126
Well-known member
Volga or further east?
Let us assume for a moment that the 'Greater Palearctic', which includes all of Iran, becomes adopted as the WP avifaunal region. There seems to be little debate over the Urals dividing the East from the West - although it seems to be a rather poor bio-geographical boundary. My point here is that once you include Iran (correct surely), and accept the Urals boundary (OK, but weakly supported), then how sensible is it then to use the Volga which swings west to the Caspian. You would be better off using a line from the southern end of the Urals, across to NE Iran. I'm not sure there is any suitable natural feature here, but more of 'an absence of feature' as with the (northern) Sahara. It would be neater and I don't think would bring great swatches of new species on to a Greater WP list.
This may have been covered elsewhere but I've not seen it
cheers, alan
Let us assume for a moment that the 'Greater Palearctic', which includes all of Iran, becomes adopted as the WP avifaunal region. There seems to be little debate over the Urals dividing the East from the West - although it seems to be a rather poor bio-geographical boundary. My point here is that once you include Iran (correct surely), and accept the Urals boundary (OK, but weakly supported), then how sensible is it then to use the Volga which swings west to the Caspian. You would be better off using a line from the southern end of the Urals, across to NE Iran. I'm not sure there is any suitable natural feature here, but more of 'an absence of feature' as with the (northern) Sahara. It would be neater and I don't think would bring great swatches of new species on to a Greater WP list.
This may have been covered elsewhere but I've not seen it
cheers, alan
Frenchy
Well-known member
Why are the Urals better than the Yenisei? Why not include most of Kazakhstan and the lowlands of the other 'stans? I've had this debate with birders who start off saying its total rubbish, then when you actually drill down into species distributions, it gets a little harder to refute. Using the Urals as a boundary makes no real sense biogeographically, and certainly not geographically, seeing as the Urals are basically hills, and immediately east of the Yenisei the land rises to a higher plateau with corresponding change in species.
All a bit rough and ready for sure, but more defensible than the Urals and the Ural river. Plus i get Saxaul Sparrow on my WP list
DMW
Well-known member
For what it's worth, I think trying to precisely define the WP on zoogeographical terms is a rather pointless endeavour.
Who actually cares about / uses these boundaries in a practical sense? Is there anybody apart from geographical listers, and authors of regional texts, both of whom need an agreed definitive cut-off point rather than endless ruminations about Chadian enclaves and Urals.
To me, it makes sense to use political boundaries and, with the obvious exception of Russia and possibly Kazakhstan, either include or exclude entire nations. So, for example, include all of the Arabian Peninsular states, all of Iran, all of Algeria, but boot out all of Mauretania (sorry, Grey Woodpecker), and all of Chad.
When it comes to Russia, just do the same - decide where you think the boundary ought roughly to lie, and then have at it with the political boundaries of the oblasts, krais, and autonomous okrugs!
Who actually cares about / uses these boundaries in a practical sense? Is there anybody apart from geographical listers, and authors of regional texts, both of whom need an agreed definitive cut-off point rather than endless ruminations about Chadian enclaves and Urals.
To me, it makes sense to use political boundaries and, with the obvious exception of Russia and possibly Kazakhstan, either include or exclude entire nations. So, for example, include all of the Arabian Peninsular states, all of Iran, all of Algeria, but boot out all of Mauretania (sorry, Grey Woodpecker), and all of Chad.
When it comes to Russia, just do the same - decide where you think the boundary ought roughly to lie, and then have at it with the political boundaries of the oblasts, krais, and autonomous okrugs!
lewis20126
Well-known member
Why are the Urals better than the Yenisei? Why not include most of Kazakhstan and the lowlands of the other 'stans? I've had this debate with birders who start off saying its total rubbish, then when you actually drill down into species distributions, it gets a little harder to refute. Using the Urals as a boundary makes no real sense biogeographically, and certainly not geographically, seeing as the Urals are basically hills, and immediately east of the Yenisei the land rises to a higher plateau with corresponding change in species.
All a bit rough and ready for sure, but more defensible than the Urals and the Ural river. Plus i get Saxaul Sparrow on my WP list
You won't get me to defend the urals as a bg boundary, see my points above. Happy if there is something better further east.
Cheers, a
lewis20126
Well-known member
Frenchy
Well-known member
:t:
I might look at it all properly at some point, i'm just surprised that so much attention has been focussed on the African and Arabian areas by recent authors/commentators, and no one really looks at the eastern boundary.
