if your due to fly soon, i got mine in dixons at stansted for £850 and that is the 17-85 lens kit aswell. A pretty good deal. Plus ive sent off for the canon cash back which will come off that price. The only draw back is they were not selling the body on its own of that is what you would rather.
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30D, 40D, and 5D which has the best performance for the money? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CCRII
- Start date
Tannin
Common; sedentary.
I'm ready to stand corrected here, but as I understand it, HTP isn't just for raw; nor does it simply under-expose by a stop. What it does is change the shape of the tone curve so that there is (yes) less range for the darker tones (= more noise, though not enough to worry about most of the time, especially if you use Neat Image or similar), but more headroom to fit the bright whites in.
The other day, for example, I was able to get much better shots of a Great Egret in full sun - blinding white breeding plumes, perfectly exposed without turning the background into a dingy, dark thing. Switch HTP on, point, click, easy as that. Very[/i[ impressive.
I may or may not have the raw files - I usually shoot raw + JPG for landscapes, mostly (but not always) only JPG for birds - but straight out of the camera, the JPGs were as good as I could ask for. I haven't looked to see if I have raws or not. (Not being at home, I can't check just now.)
Now, to your question re HTP and landscapes: yes, but depending on the scene. If you are doing (for example) a scene with very bright white clouds making interesting shapes such that you don't want to blow the highlights out, there is a use. Another one came in handy for me last week and again today: landscape scenes with white salt lakes.
Overall, just the same, I don't see HTP as being as important to the landscape photographer as it is to, for examle, people doing weddings.
Keith Reeder
Watch the birdie...
Yep, correct - that's why I said:
I mentioned the "under-expose by a stop" point just to indicate what an HTP RAW would look like if you opened it in an non HTP-aware converter.
For the record, HTP was one of the first things that really got me interested in the 40D, and why I'm looking forward to it being recognised outside of DPP.
HTP is actually the very first Custom User Setting I saved to the Command Dial - to activate it, I simply turn the dial to C1 and it's on, along with all my other usual camera settings.
Very cool.
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Thanks Kieth
An interesting read, I wish I could say that it helped! Clearly the 40D has it for birds, but I have seen the '3D' effect that he talks about with the 5D and for macro and landscapes it is fairly compelling. I say 'fairly' because clearly, the 40D is a wonderful, up to date general purpose camera that new, costs less than most second hand 5Ds.
Today, I am mostly favouring the 40D! (I think).
Chris
An interesting read, I wish I could say that it helped! Clearly the 40D has it for birds, but I have seen the '3D' effect that he talks about with the 5D and for macro and landscapes it is fairly compelling. I say 'fairly' because clearly, the 40D is a wonderful, up to date general purpose camera that new, costs less than most second hand 5Ds.
Today, I am mostly favouring the 40D! (I think).
Chris
K-Lex
Well-known member
I am too in the exact same position. I have a 20D and fancy something new. I could justify the 5D because I do landscape work but I'm very reluctant as it's an old camera and there will be a new 5D mkII out next year. What turns me agains the 40D is the fact that in essence, it's the same camera as the 400D just a better processor and I think it would grieve me to spend almost double the price of the 400D for essentially the same camera. Between the two there is no difference in durability I don't think if you want that you're looking at the 1-series.
Every day I wake up and have changed my mind about which camera I want and it's driving me up the wall!!!
My choice is, do I buy the 5D and settle for my 24-70 as the widest lens I've got, or buy a 40D and buy a 17-40 as well. I've just sold my Sigma 18-50 as I'm in the process of converting entirely to 'L' glass. But then the 5D is next to useless for birding....... aarrrrrgh!!!!!!!
Every day I wake up and have changed my mind about which camera I want and it's driving me up the wall!!!
My choice is, do I buy the 5D and settle for my 24-70 as the widest lens I've got, or buy a 40D and buy a 17-40 as well. I've just sold my Sigma 18-50 as I'm in the process of converting entirely to 'L' glass. But then the 5D is next to useless for birding....... aarrrrrgh!!!!!!!
Keith Reeder
Watch the birdie...
It really, really, really isn't, you know.
In fact, it's not even a re-made 30D: every last thing about the 40D is completely new compared to the 30D, and is so different to the 400D that they might as well be by different manufacturers.
Seriously, all the 40D has in common with the 400D is the "40", the "D", the Canon badge, the sensor size and the colour.
And it is particularly wrong (before anyone says it!
) to suggest that they have the same sensor - that's fundementally incorrect.
K-Lex
Well-known member
It really, really, really isn't, you know.
In fact, it's not even a re-made 30D: every last thing about the 40D is completely new compared to the 30D, and is so different to the 400D that they might as well be by different manufacturers.
Seriously, all the 40D has in common with the 400D is the "40", the "D", the Canon badge, the sensor size and the colour.
And it is particularly wrong (before anyone says it!
Ok, I'll consider myself told!!! I think I'm pretty sold on the 40D to be honest, it would just hurt to buy a 5D and in 2 months a new one to be released. That would be annoying and the prices of the current 5D aren't a total bargain. The only remaining thing that is holding me back, all of my lenses (except 1) are fast 'L' glass and I'm just a wee bit concerned they'd shine on the 5D as opposed to just being good on the 40D.
My current thinking is buy a 40D and a 17-40 L lens and in 12 months when the 5D mkII has been released and all the initial hype has died down therefore prices have started to drop, replace it then. I wish I could just make the decision and buy it!!! I think about things too much!
Keith Reeder
Watch the birdie...
It'd just be a shame to rule out a great camera on the basis of a misunderstanding, Keith - I haven't so much as touched my 30Ds since I got the 40D.
alexf
UK, India, Hungary
I have had the 40d for just over a week. I love it and wouldn't swap it for a 5d. My lenses would become shorter for birding with 5d and I think the 40d has slightly less grain, better fps, quicker autofocus and quieter shutter (which is better for birding or churches too).
Keith Reeder
Watch the birdie...
Yeah, unquestionably. The 5D may have stellar IQ, but it's slow and clunky for a birding camera.
The 40D has all the IQ I could wish for, excellent noise performance, and is fast and purposeful.
Surprisingly (to me!) I also like the "bells and whistles" like Highlight Tone Priority, the Custom User Settings and - can't believe I'm writing this! - the dust shaker, which really does seem to work very well.
My "old" grip fits the 40D too.
5D? Great camera, but not my kind of camera.
K-Lex
Well-known member
Ok, I've now reached my momentus decision (subject to me having a play in my local camera store next week).
It's the 40D I'll get. 95% of the 5D at 50% of the price. For the same price as the 5D body I can have the 40D, a 17-40 L lens, a grip and a couple of odds and sods. My final decision was based on one factor - the 5D, although a top camera, is a fossil whereas the 40D is bang up to date. I'll get this kit now, then buy the 5D mkII when prices have come down from being sky high after it's released. Thanks everyone, particularly Keith Reeder for showing me the way!!!
Keith
It's the 40D I'll get. 95% of the 5D at 50% of the price. For the same price as the 5D body I can have the 40D, a 17-40 L lens, a grip and a couple of odds and sods. My final decision was based on one factor - the 5D, although a top camera, is a fossil whereas the 40D is bang up to date. I'll get this kit now, then buy the 5D mkII when prices have come down from being sky high after it's released. Thanks everyone, particularly Keith Reeder for showing me the way!!!
Keith
Modular
I'll leave this space empty
It really, really, really isn't, you know.
In fact, it's not even a re-made 30D: every last thing about the 40D is completely new compared to the 30D, and is so different to the 400D that they might as well be by different manufacturers.
Seriously, all the 40D has in common with the 400D is the "40", the "D", the Canon badge, the sensor size and the colour.
And it is particularly wrong (before anyone says it!
Hello Keith,
The Really Really is'nt ... Is'nt exactly True,
I Am Buying a 40D and have
Tried One a Few Time's ... Excellent Camera I agree, But ... The 40D has
got Some Nice Extra's that the 400D already had ... The Difference
between the 400D and the 40D is not a lot when using it in Britain unless
you lean on the Iso Part of the 40D ... If you've only Seen the 400D and
not Owned One ... Then comparing It on Paper is'nt that much Different,
Personally the 40D does'nt give that much more and It is close to the
400D, The Lens will make the Initial difference at the end of the Day,
I admire Your Photography as much as the Next Person ... But to say that
the 400D compared to a 40D is ... I quote ...
Is absolutely absurd lol ... I'm hoping You were Exaggerating there Keith ...
If You was'nt ... Try a 400D for a Couple Of Day's and You'll see there is'nt
that Much between them ... Difference's Yes ... But Certainly not another
Camera,
Hope I did'nt Offend but what You say is'nt True
,Take Care,
John,
Keith Reeder
Watch the birdie...
I'm absolutely not exaggerating, John.
The 400D has nothing in common with the 40D - this is no secret, and anyone who suggests otherwise needs to do some more research.
It does not matter that they have the same-sized sensor - they don't have a single important component in common (I'm not talking about things like the CF card slot, I'm talking about components that have a bearing on IQ or performance).
I'll say this again: the 40D is a "from the ground up" new camera which is physically similar to the 30D on first impression, but is in fact nothing like the 30D internally either.
Given that the 30D and 400D are utterly different, it follows that the 40D is even further divorced from the 400D, and the similarities some people argue are there between the two just do not exist.
I'm not belittling the 400D as a camera, I'm saying that the 40D has bugger all in common with it at a component or design level.
This is fact, John.
The AF module, AF performance, frames per second capability, menu structure, ergonomics, LCD, sensor design (including brand new on-chip noise cancellation processing that no other Canon camera has), Highlight Tone Priority, Custom User Settings, "My Menu" options, optional on-camera High ISO NR... these are just some of the differences between the 40D and the 400D - it's utterly different.
The 400D has nothing in common with the 40D - this is no secret, and anyone who suggests otherwise needs to do some more research.
It does not matter that they have the same-sized sensor - they don't have a single important component in common (I'm not talking about things like the CF card slot, I'm talking about components that have a bearing on IQ or performance).
I'll say this again: the 40D is a "from the ground up" new camera which is physically similar to the 30D on first impression, but is in fact nothing like the 30D internally either.
Given that the 30D and 400D are utterly different, it follows that the 40D is even further divorced from the 400D, and the similarities some people argue are there between the two just do not exist.
I'm not belittling the 400D as a camera, I'm saying that the 40D has bugger all in common with it at a component or design level.
This is fact, John.
The AF module, AF performance, frames per second capability, menu structure, ergonomics, LCD, sensor design (including brand new on-chip noise cancellation processing that no other Canon camera has), Highlight Tone Priority, Custom User Settings, "My Menu" options, optional on-camera High ISO NR... these are just some of the differences between the 40D and the 400D - it's utterly different.
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Modular
I'll leave this space empty
Lol I Still Disagree Keith ... I know the Difference's Sir I promise You and You listed
only Half of Them but to say It's Totally different is Still in My Opinion not True,
Bet Your Glad You got that new Dust Shaker eh ... I think You mentioned that ...
Good Ain't It ,
I saw Your Post's about the 40D before You owned One ... You knew then the
Difference between 40D and 30D ... But You were Still Hesitant and Rightly so ...
I won't be a Tester for Any Company and Find the Fault's ... But Once You Bought
One You actually Saw the Difference ... This is What I'm saying with a 400D ... Unless
You Really own One You'll see there is'nt as much Difference as You may think,
As for FPS ... That all depend's on the Light ... I think 1/4000 is good enough for now
and I can Programme the 400d too ... Custom setting's aswell,
Menu Structure is'nt an arguement too ... Once You know the Camera that ain't a Deal,
I would'nt use 1600 never mind Higher ... I just would'nt but that's Me,
I've seen the Noise Level at It's Highest on the 40D and It is Incredible ...
But I'll never generally be in a Position to use that Much ...
800 is Great on a 400D,
Lcd has the same Pixels but the 40D Spread's them Half an Inch more ... So Half an
Inch more but same amount of Pixels, Image Size is also Identical, Mirror Lock up too
is on the 400D Through Custom setting's, There is 11 custom functions with 29 settings ...
Don't think I need anymore as I never use One lol,
Highlight Priority is an Excellent Feature ... That's One Reason I'm Buying It to be
Honest ... But You never mentioned the Drawback of using It Keith ... The Increase of
Shadow noise and of course Lower Dynamic range effect's on Lower end Exposures ...
Not also forgetting that "HP" WILL Effect ISO, These are Fact's that are never
Given ... But We can't have Everything Can we lol,
I'm not sure the 40D has a Proximity sensor ... Hope so as It's great on the 400D,
The 6 FPS, IQ and HP are what I'm after ... The rest i'm not too bothered with and I'm
also Happy that the 40D Has the Same Tab Menu as the 400D ... Better layed out,
We won't argue the 14 Bit compared to the 12 Bit of the 400D, as This IS a let down
on the 40D ... I was Hoping that would be better but It's not ... You won't see a
Difference between the Two, Post Processing is the Only Difference in 14 and 12 ...
Not in the Camera,
I could Go on about the Difference's All Day ... And so could You ... But as
for being Totally different Camera's is not right ... I wonder if the 40D took
any feature's from the 400D ... Truth is ... It did ,
I appreciate your View's All the Time Keith ... But You ain't Right about It
being a totally different Camera ... You need to stop comparing the 40D
with The Prehistoric 30D Layout ( Not Quality of Course, ) and see what a
400D actually does In the Field and of course ... On Paper ,
Hope You take this all as My Opinion and of course the Fact's ... I still Rate
You as a Top Photographer ... But not Your Comparison ,
See You in the Field with My 40D :t: ,
Take Care,
John,
only Half of Them but to say It's Totally different is Still in My Opinion not True,
Bet Your Glad You got that new Dust Shaker eh
... I think You mentioned that ... Good Ain't It
,I saw Your Post's about the 40D before You owned One ... You knew then the
Difference between 40D and 30D ... But You were Still Hesitant and Rightly so ...
I won't be a Tester for Any Company and Find the Fault's ... But Once You Bought
One You actually Saw the Difference ... This is What I'm saying with a 400D ... Unless
You Really own One You'll see there is'nt as much Difference as You may think,
As for FPS ... That all depend's on the Light ... I think 1/4000 is good enough for now
and I can Programme the 400d too ... Custom setting's aswell,
Menu Structure is'nt an arguement too ... Once You know the Camera that ain't a Deal,
I would'nt use 1600 never mind Higher ... I just would'nt but that's Me,
I've seen the Noise Level at It's Highest on the 40D and It is Incredible ...
But I'll never generally be in a Position to use that Much ...
800 is Great on a 400D,
Lcd has the same Pixels but the 40D Spread's them Half an Inch more ... So Half an
Inch more but same amount of Pixels, Image Size is also Identical, Mirror Lock up too
is on the 400D Through Custom setting's, There is 11 custom functions with 29 settings ...
Don't think I need anymore as I never use One lol,
Highlight Priority is an Excellent Feature ... That's One Reason I'm Buying It to be
Honest ... But You never mentioned the Drawback of using It Keith ... The Increase of
Shadow noise and of course Lower Dynamic range effect's on Lower end Exposures ...
Not also forgetting that "HP" WILL Effect ISO, These are Fact's that are never
Given ... But We can't have Everything Can we lol,
I'm not sure the 40D has a Proximity sensor ... Hope so as It's great on the 400D,
The 6 FPS, IQ and HP are what I'm after ... The rest i'm not too bothered with and I'm
also Happy that the 40D Has the Same Tab Menu as the 400D ... Better layed out,
We won't argue the 14 Bit compared to the 12 Bit of the 400D, as This IS a let down
on the 40D ... I was Hoping that would be better but It's not ... You won't see a
Difference between the Two, Post Processing is the Only Difference in 14 and 12 ...
Not in the Camera,
I could Go on about the Difference's All Day ... And so could You ... But as
for being Totally different Camera's is not right ... I wonder if the 40D took
any feature's from the 400D ... Truth is ... It did
,I appreciate your View's All the Time Keith ... But You ain't Right about It
being a totally different Camera ... You need to stop comparing the 40D
with The Prehistoric 30D Layout ( Not Quality of Course, ) and see what a
400D actually does In the Field and of course ... On Paper
,Hope You take this all as My Opinion and of course the Fact's ... I still Rate
You as a Top Photographer ... But not Your Comparison
,See You in the Field with My 40D :t: ,
Take Care,
John,
Harold Stiver
Well-known member
I disagree. I often use the 5d over my 20d for birding. The only downside is the frames per second. On the plus side, the image quality is better with the 5d, especially the dynamic range, there is a lot less chance of blocked shadows or burnt highlights. I especially like it for winter raptors from my car. I like to shoot as they take off from a perch, and the wider view of the 5d eliminates clipped body parts.
Also I feel the focus on the 5d is quicker and tighter than my other camera bodies (I haven't used the 40D though).
GYRob
Well-known member
i had the 400d and its a super little camera and got me some nice shots but like the 5d 3fps is just to slow for fast action bird shots you just miss far to many even when your ready for the shot even a swan taking off that is rather slow, 3fps will only get half the shots a 40d will get YES most will be very simalar but it will give far better chance of getting the peak action shot .
i have to say i see the 40d miles away from the 400d in user terms out in the field and even in some cases i think it will beat ( for reach and thereby get the shot )my mk2 or mk3 .
I think the detail from the 40d will beat the mk2 for sure and given that the image will be larger will slightly beat my mk3 in detail too.
Rob.
i have to say i see the 40d miles away from the 400d in user terms out in the field and even in some cases i think it will beat ( for reach and thereby get the shot )my mk2 or mk3 .
I think the detail from the 40d will beat the mk2 for sure and given that the image will be larger will slightly beat my mk3 in detail too.
Rob.
