8x42 FL is here (1 Viewer)

[henry link]

Kevin,

I trust the crypto-racist, isolationist charge wasn't directed at me. My suspicion that the Chinese EDs might be EL copies didn't come from politics, but from the objective design, which is a bit unusual nowadays. Among the alphas only Swarovski uses one like it. Anyway, Nikon seems to have done worse for itself vis-a-vis the EL. If the rumors are true it got into legal trouble for coming too close to copying the patented EL focuser (and screwing it up), while ironically using an optical design totally different and IMO superior to the EL.

Henry

 

[Kevin Conville]

Kevin,

I trust the crypto-racist, isolationist charge wasn't directed at me.

Nor me, I'm sure. Makes you wonder who KP is talking about though. Who mentioned isolationism? Being a critic of China, inc. makes one a racist? First I'm hearing of that. Getting kind of rough around the punchbowl.

"No one is stealing anyones IP"
That's quaint KP but naive. Parsing the definitions doesn't make it not so.

 

[Sancho]

Getting kind of rough around the punchbowl.

Way-hay!!! Is this a private donnybrook, or can anyone join in?B

 

[Kevin Conville]

Way-hay!!! Is this a private donnybrook, or can anyone join in?B

:-O yeah yeah, come on in! We threw out the bowl with the turd in it :eek!:

added:
That (inadvertently) turned out to be a pretty good metaphor for the neo-cons and the Bush adm!
Sorry, couldn't pass on that one. OK, stop. None of that here.

 

[Sancho]

:-O yeah yeah, come on in! We threw out the bowl with the turd in it :eek!:

added:
That (inadvertently) turned out to be a pretty good metaphor for the neo-cons and the Bush adm!
Sorry, couldn't pass on that one. OK, stop. None of that here.

It´s great, though, isn´t it? We start out with birds or binoculars, we end up in two easy moves with Affairs of State and Geopolitics. It´s Saturday night, this could get messy.....So anyway, how are those Zeiss 8x42 FL holding up?

 

[FrankD]

It is interesting in the comparison you made to the EL Henry. I was not aware of the similarities in objective design. However, last fall when I took the Promasters up to the hawkwatch John Traynor commented as much about their similarity to the ELs and he was not talking about the open-bridge design.

 

[CLRobles]

Brock, and all fans of the Chinese EDs,
I believe that these things are practically as good as the alphas, you guys are smart and don't lie about the One Thing. But there is something that worries me about the whole situation. By disassembly/reverse engineering, development costs are avoided. By incorporating in a Communist/Socialist country, the spoils for the top management can be saved, too. And by employing an underpayed workforce, the rest of the amazing bargain is achieved. The result is passed along to Capitalist and relatively wealthy first worlders, who aren't stupid and can't resist a bargain. OK, so far everybody is happy, right? But Zeiss etc. are not charities. Zeiss and Leica have their medical and industrial and photo divisions, and optics is nothing to Swaro compared to the glass reindeer and sparkly jewel thingies. if they don't sell 'em, they will quit making 'em. And if S L and Z aren't there to come out with the next amazing twist, wherein shall it be ripped off from? We are waiting on dielectric prism coatings. Then will come water and dirt-shedding top coatings, nonlinear focus gearing, composite bodies, would anybody bet against this? Even the vaunted Japanese don't really seem to be original in their binocular designs, as excellent as some of their products may be. Bavaria is full of rich educated people who drive Porsches and climb mountains, and that is a major bummer. But, to keep the source flowing, it is imperative that you spend all your money on alphas, and be a snob!

:clap::clap: Well said Ron! I couldn't have put it better!

All this dislike for the Chinese seems like an interesting mix of political ideology and crypto-racism. There I said it. You can't knock the view (well you try but fail pretty miserably) so you rally to the flag.

Don't you think this is a little stiff Kevin? Last time I checked Rons home town was Los Alomos, NM..... Not a German or Austrian zip so what flag were talking about? I think Ron has a very valid point when he says that the leading innovation in optics design comes out of Europe! I think you would be very silly to think the Chinese engineers are ever going drive innovation the way the Europeans do..... And Ron's look at the China's political and industrial makeup is not fantasy! It is the truth and it is the makeup of China! Furthermore to twist ones take on the way technology is formed and to try to make it a racial thing I think is way out of bounds!
By the way..... I have not A-B'd ZR's to the Alphas but I have the top Vortex and NO they are not in the same league optically!

 

[ceasar]

It's probably best to try to stay away from phrases like "crypto-racism." The next thing you know someone will accuse the Han of practicing something like it against its neighbors.
Bob

 

[Sancho]

It's probably best to try to stay away from phrases like "crypto-racism." The next thing you know someone will accuse the Han of practicing something like it against its neighbors.
Bob

Yes, that Westward push to subjugate indigenous peoples...we Europeans would never dream of such a thing....("In fourteen hundred and ninety two, Columbus sailed.....")

In my defence I´ve bought binos and scopes from Austria, Germany, Japan and China. And I´ve bought them from both UK and US retailers. I´ll indulge my obsession anywhere.

 

[Jaeger70]

Congratulations on your acquisition of a truly fine optic. I have a pre-Lotutec 7x42FL and an 8x32FL; both were purchased on the used market, so I saved mucho dinero. When I take a gander at what these optics command brand-spanking new, I realize how fortunate I am to own these at the price I paid.

I couldn't be happier, especially with the 7X42. The image is so bright and sharp that I find enjoyment observing the most mundane subjects like street signs!

Like many of you, the Zen-Ray 7x36 cannot be released soon enough. If it rivals the quality of my 7x42FL, I might consider selling it and using the profit to fund a birding trip.

 

[CLRobles]

Like many of you, the Zen-Ray 7x36 cannot be released soon enough. If it rivals the quality of my 7x42FL, I might consider selling it and using the profit to fund a birding trip.

I agree, splendid pick ups for the both of you! You now have bins that will last a lifetime and still give wonderful views.... But I wouldn't hold your breath for the ZR's rivaling your FL's. As stated earlier they are incredibly good for the money but they are not FL's..... If your looking for something in that price range that will rival and even exceed look to Nikon's Superior E not the Zen Ray.... I for one think you would be making a huge mistake by selling a lifetime investment in the Zeiss for what I think is a throw-a-way bin in the ZR.... We don't even know if ZR will be around in five years let alone thirty...

 

[Kevin Conville]

Yes, that Westward push to subjugate indigenous peoples...we Europeans would never dream of such a thing....("In fourteen hundred and ninety two, Columbus sailed.....")

There wasn't any of that happening in Asia 500 years ago? Like I said before, that was then and this is now. It was a different world then and to adopt a revisionist view of once upon a time is a little too easy. Hasn't what is now China been "civilized" much longer than Europe has?

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

 

[Nova88]

Zeiss 8X42 FL nice stuff an interesting thread until somehow politics always creeps in. no thanks i'll stay out of that conversation and stick to the birding

 

[npos]

I believe Zeiss moved (or outsourced) their microscope manufacturing to China and India several years ago. It seems remarkable that their binocular line, if not the spotting scopes, are still German made.

NP

 

[CLRobles]

I believe Zeiss moved (or outsourced) their microscope manufacturing to China and India several years ago. It seems remarkable that their binocular line, if not the spotting scopes, are still German made.

NP

Maybe the construction of the scopes but I would bet the glass and all critical components are made in Gremany.... Just a guess though?

 

[Steve C]

Yow know what? All this from a guy who admits that he hasn't tried them. I would suggest that you actually do that, but it would do no good. You already know, and that is just that. So, what I'm not holding my breath over is an objective view from you on the ZEN. I believe it It has become obvious that will not happen.

I will admit that they are not the absolute equal of the alpha, but, believe it or not they will in fact "rival" the FL and any of the other alpha in some facets. They will not exceed them in a final score perhaps, but they are close enough that unless there is some obsessive need to satisfy some inner urge to spend a lot of money, there are indeed a whole lot of people who would get a lot more enjoyment out of a trip with a ZEN in hand who actually spent some the $$$ saved on the trip.

 

[CLRobles]

Yow know what? All this from a guy who admits that he hasn't tried them. I would suggest that you actually do that, but it would do no good. You already know, and that is just that. So, what I'm not holding my breath over is an objective view from you on the ZEN. I believe it It has become obvious that will not happen.

I will admit that they are not the absolute equal of the alpha, but, believe it or not they will in fact "rival" the FL and any of the other alpha in some facets. They will not exceed them in a final score perhaps, but they are close enough that unless there is some obsessive need to satisfy some inner urge to spend a lot of money, there are indeed a whole lot of people who would get a lot more enjoyment out of a trip with a ZEN in hand who actually spent some the $$$ saved on the trip.

Wow Steve, a little touchy about the Zens I see.... I have tried comparable optics of the ZR and my inner urge has everything to do with buying quality not Chinese junk that are the current rage! So go buy and enjoy your ZR's and when it comes time to trade them up just throw them in the trash ok. While I on the other hand who goes out and takes my time to buy the alphas right at very good prices will be able to sell them for what I paid for them. And I will have the satisfaction of knowing I have the best in the field while you on the other hand will have the satisfaction of knowing you got "deal" on your optics!

 

[kristoffer]

Actually you make your self look a bit silly now. You claim to have try something you believe is comparable and frankly, god knows what you think is as good, or as bad as the Zen. Try it first, then come back and bash it and Steve if you still have the urge.

Wow Steve, a little touchy about the Zens I see.... I have tried comparable optics of the ZR and my inner urge has everything to do with buying quality not Chinese junk that are the current rage! So go buy and enjoy your ZR's and when it comes time to trade them up just throw them in the trash ok. While I on the other hand who goes out and takes my time to buy the alphas right at very good prices will be able to sell them for what I paid for them. And I will have the satisfaction of knowing I have the best in the field while you on the other hand will have the satisfaction of knowing you got "deal" on your optics!

 

[Steve C]

Wow Steve, a little touchy about the Zens I see.... !

I care not what binocular anybody chooses. I have a problem with people who talk on one hand about experiencing equipment, and on the other hand denigrating something without using it. That makes me a bit "touchy". It has nothing to do with your bias against something you have no experience with.

Now John Traynor on the other hand has tried both. He prefers the FL. I am not going to argue with that sort of a comparative viewpoint.

 

[ceasar]

Yes, that Westward push to subjugate indigenous peoples...we Europeans would never dream of such a thing....("In fourteen hundred and ninety two, Columbus sailed.....")

In my defence I´ve bought binos and scopes from Austria, Germany, Japan and China. And I´ve bought them from both UK and US retailers. I´ll indulge my obsession anywhere.

Sancho,
Let's go to the source. It all started with that Irish Priest (what ever his name was?) and that Leather Row Boat of his.:h?:
Bob