Ageing a black redstart, Orkney, UK (1 Viewer)

[Mark Lew1s]

I had this female type black redstart on Sanday, Orkney the other day. I didn't notice in the field, but my photos show it has quite a well defined gape. I guess my questions are:

Can 2cy/adult birds show a gape like this?
Do black redstarts breed early enough on the continent for a juv to arrive in Orkney in late May?

I've had clearly juv black redstarts on research vessels in the central North Sea in early July, but this is a good 6 weeks earlier than that...

 

[Andy Adcock]

1 Don't know
2 I'd say definitely not.

Can't say I've ever noticed the brown ear coverts either, maybe it's last years young?


A

 

[P.Sunesen]

All Black Redstarts have yellow c.o.m., no matter how old they are, but you need a very good photo, or have the bird in your hand to tell:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/34144_UU_23028_HUSROeDSTJERT.jpg


Definitely not a juvenile (the loose structured feathers of a juvenile would be easy to spot on this good photo). Here a juvenile:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=22409

Looks like a perfectly normal 2cy+ female type (the angle doesn't allow a clear view of the wing coverts needed for possible ageing beyond this).

Peter

 

[Mark Lew1s]

Thanks Peter!

 

[Richard Prior]

It's dark outside Mark, but I'll have a look at our breeding pair in the morning, the male is a 2CY.
In Haute-Savoie, dates of first fledged young were 26 May 2013, 6 May 2014 and 6 May 2015.
Doh! Peter had the answer for you already, I bow to the Danish guru!
Cheers,

Richard

 

[Mark Lew1s]

Brilliant - thanks Richard. I did wonder if it would be possible for a continental juv to get here this early and from your dates it seems like it might be possible - but this isn't one.

 

[Nutcracker]

I did wonder if it would be possible for a continental juv to get here this early and from your dates it seems like it might be possible - but this isn't one.

I suspect it would take a lot more than 2-3 weeks from fledging for a chick to have sufficient strength to do a North Sea crossing. More like 2-3 months, probably.

 

[Mark Lew1s]

So the one I had in early July in the middle of the North Sea fledged in April?

I reckon that there are lots of birds that undertake long migrations very young. I see sedge warbler fledgelings in late July and they're all but gone by late august.

 

[Nutcracker]

... and 6 May 2015.

So the one I had in early July in the middle of the North Sea fledged in April?

I reckon that there are lots of birds that undertake long migrations very young. I see sedge warbler fledgelings in late July and they're all but gone by late august.

Early May to early July = 2 months, as I said (and late July to late Aug for those Sedgies also OK, that's also 2 to 3 months after fledging)

But early May fledging, to late May cross-North Sea arrival, I still reckon is not feasible.

 

[Mark Lew1s]

Well, I take issue with late July to late August being 2 to 3 months but other than that we're both just speculating really!