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Am Golden Plover at East Harling? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Grando
- Start date
John Cantelo
Well-known member
Difficult to say on this shot given light & lack of detail, but I don't think it can be ruled out,
John
John
Ben Rackstraw
Well-known member
Can't be 100% certain from the photo, but looks like that might be the Dotterel that has been present at the same site.
John Cantelo
Well-known member
If there's been a Dotterel at this site, then I think that's probably what it is! Not much detail is visible due to blurring/burn out, but what can be seen is compatible with this identification,
John
John
Ben Rackstraw
Well-known member
Apparently so. Not been there myself, so this is all second hand via the various news sites. But I think that there was initially an AGP and a Dotterel with the flock, but more recently just the Dotterel.
I meant the bird in the image, I don't doubt there has been one there!
Ben Rackstraw
Well-known member
As I said, can't be 100% sure, especially as I've seen neither of the individual birds in question. But, I can reconcile what I can make out from the image with juv Dotterel moreso than with AGP.
What features make you lean towards Dotterel?
Ben Rackstraw
Well-known member
General impression.
Might be Jedi birding, but you really can't do much else with some photos.
Not got the time for an in-depth discussion, just wanted to comment that from this photo it's not clear cut that this bird is an AGP, given that there's been a Dotterel there too.
Original poster can provide the field notes, not my job mate!
EDIT Ok, tea break time in the office, so a bit more time - what could make it a Dotterel...
* Bill appears short
* Appears to be a peachy wash to the underparts, possibly too clean for AGP
* Mantle patterning seems OK for Dotterel
All of the above could be artefactual; but there's not been a whole lot of discussion of the pro-AGP features either.
Anyway, that'll teach me to comment on birds that I've not seen (or even attempt to post any suggestions on the ID forum!), will wait until I've been and grilled the flock before I post again.
Might be Jedi birding, but you really can't do much else with some photos.
Not got the time for an in-depth discussion, just wanted to comment that from this photo it's not clear cut that this bird is an AGP, given that there's been a Dotterel there too.
Original poster can provide the field notes, not my job mate!
EDIT Ok, tea break time in the office, so a bit more time - what could make it a Dotterel...
* Bill appears short
* Appears to be a peachy wash to the underparts, possibly too clean for AGP
* Mantle patterning seems OK for Dotterel
All of the above could be artefactual; but there's not been a whole lot of discussion of the pro-AGP features either.
Anyway, that'll teach me to comment on birds that I've not seen (or even attempt to post any suggestions on the ID forum!), will wait until I've been and grilled the flock before I post again.
Last edited:
John Cantelo
Well-known member
I'm surprised that tanager85 is so surprised since the more I look at this bird the more this seems to be the correct ID. I've always felt there was a broad resemblence between the two species anyhow.
As I observed earlier it's hard to be certain of detail and the bright side light has clearly 'burnt out' detail on the chest and forecrown. It does look a bit daintier than the GPs [as would AMG of course], on closer inspection it seems to have olivish [not lead/black] legs, the bill look very small, the sides of the neck [as far as you can make them out] seem greyish and the lower flanks [ditto] a distinctly warmer. In autumn some Dotterel can have very faint chest markings anyhow and, for reasons already noted, this photo wouldn't necessarily show them. It's another example, in my opinion, where a few lines of description could tell us more than a mere 'record shot' useful though it might be,
John
As I observed earlier it's hard to be certain of detail and the bright side light has clearly 'burnt out' detail on the chest and forecrown. It does look a bit daintier than the GPs [as would AMG of course], on closer inspection it seems to have olivish [not lead/black] legs, the bill look very small, the sides of the neck [as far as you can make them out] seem greyish and the lower flanks [ditto] a distinctly warmer. In autumn some Dotterel can have very faint chest markings anyhow and, for reasons already noted, this photo wouldn't necessarily show them. It's another example, in my opinion, where a few lines of description could tell us more than a mere 'record shot' useful though it might be,
John
Original poster can provide the field notes, not my job mate!
Thanks for this... I wasn't asking you to provide field notes as you stated you hadn't been
Just wondered what made you plump for the latter, as I don't think I can personally decipher much to suggest Dotterel, particularly mantle wise.
Hi John,
It is hard to tell from these images as the plumage colouration could easily be photographic effect. Ideally more photos are needed.
winter Dotterels in Cambs:
http://cambsbirdclub.blogspot.com/search/label/Dotterel
Also go on the cambridge bird club photo blog and click on photos before Nov 2006, choose 2005 and then scroll down to December; 3 more photos of a bird on there for comparison.
Personally I think this bird gives good Golden Plover-like 'face'. Mantle patterning hard to see but doesn't look Dotterel like.
Any more photos, Grando?
It is hard to tell from these images as the plumage colouration could easily be photographic effect. Ideally more photos are needed.
winter Dotterels in Cambs:
http://cambsbirdclub.blogspot.com/search/label/Dotterel
Also go on the cambridge bird club photo blog and click on photos before Nov 2006, choose 2005 and then scroll down to December; 3 more photos of a bird on there for comparison.
Personally I think this bird gives good Golden Plover-like 'face'. Mantle patterning hard to see but doesn't look Dotterel like.
Any more photos, Grando?
Here's another photo - the bird on the left. Apologies for the poorness of the shots... It was a very silvery bird - a classic AGP in my eyes at the time... Note the amount of white in the supercilium, particularly above the bill. I believe with Dotterel there shouldn't be any white above the bill (I can't find one photo where there is any, but plenty of AGPs which show this feature). Indeed in the field I had no thoughts of Dotterel - the supercilium did not form a triangle at the back of the head and it was singularly lacking any buff tones in the plumage, barely smaller than GPs. The 'band' on this bird's breast seems to me to be where the darker breast feathers mix with the paler belly - again it wasn't particularly noticeable in the field and I was really straining for a breast band. Also, although looking for pale legs I could not make out pale legs in the field with this bird, though I admit they look slightly lighter on the photo!
However, this strong supercilium/head pattern made me wonder whether people were reporting the AGP as a Dotterel??? (I've not yet met anyone who's seen the Dotterel so apologies if this half-baked theory is wide of the mark! Or indeed if I am wrongly identifying Dotterel! Plus there could easily be two birds in that swirling mass of plovers... Has anyone seen both birds there?)
Here's another photo of the AGP on another site (the only other one online I can find...) I think that is the bird in these photos - now if it's a Dotterel then I hold my hands up!
http://wildlifeaylmerton.blogspot.com/2008/10/american-golden-plover.html
However, this strong supercilium/head pattern made me wonder whether people were reporting the AGP as a Dotterel??? (I've not yet met anyone who's seen the Dotterel so apologies if this half-baked theory is wide of the mark! Or indeed if I am wrongly identifying Dotterel! Plus there could easily be two birds in that swirling mass of plovers... Has anyone seen both birds there?)
Here's another photo of the AGP on another site (the only other one online I can find...) I think that is the bird in these photos - now if it's a Dotterel then I hold my hands up!
http://wildlifeaylmerton.blogspot.com/2008/10/american-golden-plover.html
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John Cantelo
Well-known member
To my eyes this photo rather confirms that it's a Dotterel. The head pattern looks OK, in this shot the chest looks distinctly greyish. there's still more of a hint of warm buff on the belly and, if you screw up your eyes there's even a suggestion of a narrow pale band beteween the two! Perhaps, I'm fooling myself and reading into the photo more than is actually there, but that's my honest reaction,
John
Surely Dotterels look tiny by comparison - virtually no size difference with this bird. Look at the Dotty photos on the Cams Bird Club above... Plus there's no obviously demarcated breast band, just that intergrade area. I can't really understand why people think it looks like a dotterel!?
For instance - look at the Keyhaven individual on Surfbirds:
http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/ga...over&photographer=&location=&county=&start=61
For instance - look at the Keyhaven individual on Surfbirds:
http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/ga...over&photographer=&location=&county=&start=61
