Awww...crap. Anyone have a spare 10x50EL free to a good home??? (2 Viewers)

[Bill Atwood]

Be forewarned, this post is somewhat long and convoluted, and probably has little useful info for any of you.

With the significant price increase of the alphas a few years ago I managed to successfully kick the habit of nursing the bin upgrade bug and settled in with my pre-lotuTec 8x42 FLs.

Until...

A friend of mine is looking to upgrade his aged 7x42 Dialyts to a new and cool alpha. So I lent him my FLs to try out for awhile. Now he wants to buy them. Hmmm... I'm sorta partial to my FLs, love the smooth focus, low light capability and that great center field view, but I have had some minor issues and the offcenter astigmatism(?) often resulted in a distracting bright halo around the edge of the field. Ok I figure, maybe I'll dip my toe back into the waters of that River of Regrets known as alpha bin upgrading.

Zeiss was obviously out of the running, new eyecups and lotuTec are definitely not worth $700 more than what I previously paid for FLs.

I had also previously flirted with Leica's Ultravids, I liked the compactness of the full size 42s, but really hate that awful thumbrest, and never cared for the somewhat rough focus. Checking out some recent Leica bin purchases of friends of mine I found that not much had changed.

Visiting the long neglected bin section of Birdforum I discover the Nikon EDGs. They look interesting, but it seems they've had their problems and the sudden redesign was rather weird. Doesn't seem to be many field reports on them either.

That left Swarovski. The company that never made a bin I liked. I mean never. Scopes? Sure! Currently own the ATS 80mm, used to own the 80mm HD. Back in the olden days (think of Ingraham's "Better View Desired") Swaros were touted as being the rugged and cheaper equivalents of the alpha Zeiss and Leicas. The full size roofs were only offered in 7x and 10x and felt like concrete blocks to me. Anyhow I was a 8x midsize guy back then and Swaro's offering, the 8x30s, had the screwy front focus. Not for me. Plus none of the many that I've looked through over the years has matched the clarity and sharpness of the Leicas 8x32 BAs or the Ziess's 8x30 Dialyts. The final straw had been the ELs. Swaro not only broke the $1000 bin barrier, they arrogantly smashed it. I grudgingly tried the ELs shortly after they came out, to my relief there was no love between their ergonomics and my hands.

Of course all the cool kids (at least in the US) loved the ELs, and you just weren't a real birder unless you showed up with your ELs and oversized Sibley "field" guide.

So with that backstory I pay a visit to a major new sporting goods retailer that just opened up in the area. Figure I'll try the new SLCs I've seen advertised in the birding mags. They look like a traditional roof and although high priced, they're significantly cheaper than the recently tweaked ELs. Well the SLCs are OK, but the FLs definitely still beat them in the ergonomics dept. I think I'll stick with the FLs for now and save the $. What are those other bins in the display case? The new 8.5x ELs? Oh what the heck I'll see what a couple tweaks, HD objectives and a $1,000 price increase get me.

What??? Oh no. Please. God. No.

What happened? Who shrunk these? Everything fits now! How come nobody warned me?

Roll down the eyecups to deal with my glasses and take a look see...POW! Unlike the FLs I can see the full field, plus its all in focus. This is not good, not at all.

Hey, what are those other bins up on the top shelf? 12x50? Nah, too much bin. What about 10x50? Yeah I'll try them, hand 'em over. I'm sure I'll have too much shake like with previous 10x bins I've tried. Ummm... where did the shake go? Aren't these supposed to be larger and heavier than the 42s? Then why don't they feel like it? Are you sure they are 10x50? Yeah I know it says so on the focus knob, but are you sure???

Alright, it wasn't complete love, after all the focus isn't as nice as the Zeiss or Nikon HGs, but its still better than Leica's.

Crap.

I can't freakin believe I'm actually considering shelling out $2600 for a pair of bins. A pair of 10x50 bins! A pair of SWAROVSKI bins!

If that bluebird of happiness ever shows up on my window sill it better be carrying an extra $1400.

 

[Kevin Conville]

Well that was entertaining, Bill! You are in trouble alright, so I hope it works out.

May I make a suggestion? Give yourself a couple of weeks to calm down and contemplate $2.6K for a pair of birding bins.

I've done this before and eventually concluded, for myself anyway, that NO binocular for field use is worth paying that.

The common denominator with all field bins is that they are handheld! This is what caused me to give up the quest for the ne plus ultra.

I somehow get by with my quaint 8x32BNs and 8x30 EIIs, for birding, and... they still seem pretty good to me. And... a bargain!

 

[RJM]

Yeah that was a fun read and almost makes want one too!

My advise is if their price gives you pause or is outside you comfort zone, then walk away. Owning a Swarovision is not going to make you a better birder or even see something you could not see in a significantly "lesser optic."

That said, $2600 is not that much cabbage for some folk and is still relatively cheap for a top-line designer product of impeccable quality. Even a low end steel Rolex would cost more!

 

[brocknroller]

You see this is why I don't visit shops with high end optics! Well, that and the fact that I dropped my credit card in the paper shredder in 2008.

Let's say you purchase the 10x50 EL. You know what's going to happen in a few years?

You're going to find something undesirable about it eventually. Maybe the "rolling ball" will finally get to you like it did Dennis. Or some other niggler, the notchy focuser.

The edge performance of the 7x42 FL probably didn't seem as bothersome when you first looked through the bin or you wouldn't have bought it. Sometimes, "flaws" have a way of creeping up on you, particularly after trying another bin that performs better in that regard.

You're also going from being a 7x birder to a 10x birder, and while that might suit you in the store, it might not out in the field. Even with the SV EL's VR technology (vibration reduction -, you still lose FOV, depth of field, and low light performance. Things that you may later miss.

Or maybe you will be as content as the bluebird of happiness with the 10x50 SV EL, but then in a few years when you visit the optics store again, you might be wowed by the latest $3,000+ Leica Ubervid HDZ (zwei), which will have shallow thumb indents and a focuser smooth as a Nikon HG's (the Uber's HD focuser was redesigned and is supposed to be smoother than the BRs, according to user reports).

Or maybe Zeiss will stop ignoring user reports about "the off center astigmatism(?) often resulted in a distracting bright halo around the edge of the field," like my good friend and confidant James Holdsworth has ignored them, and will redesign the EPs for better edge sharpness for $3,000+.

Or maybe the first digital binoculars will appear on the scene and make you wonder how you ever put up with all the aberrations in optical bins. Who knows?

One thing you do know is that incremental change$ aren't worth the giant leap in prices. So whatever tickled your fancy would have to be something very different than what you already have, which the 10x50 SV EL is.

OTOH, you're not getting any younger and that 6mm or even 5mm exit pupil is bound to shrink as time goes by. Your hands won't be as steady either and even Swaro's VR technology might not work as well.

So here's a horse of a different color. Perhaps instead of leaping into the 21st century $2,600 poorer, you might think about taking a step or two "backa" to the Leicas 8x32 BAs or the Ziess's 8x30 Dialyts that made you swoon when you were younger.

The smaller exit pupils will decrease some of those eye aberrations that come with age. And from what Alexis said on the Nikon forum, the Leica Trinny BA's "integrated focus/diopter ... is a standout for not being bettered, or apparently, equaled" today.

Newer isn't always better, and even when it is, it might not be so much better to warrant such a huge outlay of cash (or worse, credit card debt with interest).

Anyway, it sounded like you were looking for someone to talk you out of selling your FLs and buying the $2,600 SV ELs, so there are some thoughts to ruminate on while you enjoy your turkey and trimmings.

Brock

 

[mooreorless]

After I tried the 8.5x42EL Swarovision, forget the same model in 10x50 and get the 8.5. They didn't have the 10x50, so I might change my mind if I tried 10 , "or lose it".

 

[ronh]

I am looking into my leaded crystal ball. I see much traffic, much irritation, much happiness. The scene is becoming clear now. It's the most wonderful shopping day of the year!

Reason alone will never lead to the decision to buy it. Follow your heart.
Ronaldo the All Seeing

 

[brocknroller]

I am looking into my leaded crystal ball. I see much traffic, much irritation, much happiness. The scene is becoming clear now. It's the most wonderful shopping day of the year!

Reason alone will never lead to the decision to buy it. Follow your heart.
Ronaldo the All Seeing

I ordered online Tuesday from Camera Land NY and beat the traffic on Black Friday and the Internet congestion on Cyber Monday.

Brock the Psychic Consumer

 

[edwincjones]

remember,
binoculars are just tools to help us see better
we want the best tool for the job

edj

 

[Robert Wallace]

I think Brock makes a valid point regarding exit pupil size. From what I have read once you hit 50 the 5mm exit pupil may be a luxury although I accept bins with large exit pupils are easier to use. 50mm objectives are relatively large and heavy. I wear contact lenses and a few years ago my optician informed me my pupil size was just less than 4mm. I still have the "Classic" Zeiss 7x42 but my default bins are 8x32.

 

[Kammerdiner]

I'd suggest just sitting on the decision for awhile. Go back and have another look sometime when it's convenient. Try both the 8.5 and the 10. I hemmed and hawed for six months or more, looked at them 3 times I think, before finally getting the 8.5 SV on sale. It paid to wait in that case--saved something like $600 thanks to a tip here on BF.

I'll say this about my experience with the SV. It just stops your craving for more. I seriously doubt I'll ever look at another full-size again, except maybe just for yucks. It's a lifer and I seriously doubt anything significantly better will come along (analogue that is).

Incidentally, it looks like prices on the 8x32 EL are dropping again: $14-1500 now, down from $1650. The 32mm SV must be right around the corner and that'll be something else to look at and say awww crap.

Mark

 

[ceasar]

I'd suggest just sitting on the decision for awhile.............................................

Incidentally, it looks like prices on the 8x32 EL are dropping again: $14-1500 now, down from $1650. The 32mm SV must be right around the corner and that'll be something else to look at and say awww crap.

Mark

Then again maybe the Euro is falling against the Dollar? :smoke:

 

[brocknroller]

remember,
binoculars are just tools to help us see better
we want the best tool for the job

edj

I think you forgot something...

remember,
binoculars are just tools to help us see better
we want the best tool for the job that our budget will allow

 

[ceasar]

I think you forgot something...

remember,
binoculars are just tools to help us see better
we want the best tool for the job that are budget will allow

"are budget"? Did you use your cell phone to type this?

Bob

 

[FrankD]

That isn't text-ese for "our" Bob.

 

[brocknroller]

"are budget"? Did you use your cell phone to type this?

Bob

I dot.

 

[Jaysan]

This may not be available in the US, but have you had a look at the RSPB 10x42 HD (499£)? http://shopping.rspb.org.uk/p/Binoculars/RSPB_HD_binoculars_new_models.htm

Not as bright as the Swaro EL, but very good none the less. The difference in brightness was NOT worth paying three times the amount for the Swaro.

 

[FrankD]

This may not be available in the US, but have you had a look at the RSPB 10x42 HD (499£)? http://shopping.rspb.org.uk/p/Binoculars/RSPB_HD_binoculars_new_models.htm

Not as bright as the Swaro EL, but very good none the less. The difference in brightness was NOT worth paying three times the amount for the Swaro.

Hmm, me thinks those look familiar. There isn't any ED glass in the second bin but there is a specific type of element/design in the eyepiece to flatten the field.

 

[[email protected]]

I'd suggest just sitting on the decision for awhile. Go back and have another look sometime when it's convenient. Try both the 8.5 and the 10. I hemmed and hawed for six months or more, looked at them 3 times I think, before finally getting the 8.5 SV on sale. It paid to wait in that case--saved something like $600 thanks to a tip here on BF.

I'll say this about my experience with the SV. It just stops your craving for more. I seriously doubt I'll ever look at another full-size again, except maybe just for yucks. It's a lifer and I seriously doubt anything significantly better will come along (analogue that is).

Incidentally, it looks like prices on the 8x32 EL are dropping again: $14-1500 now, down from $1650. The 32mm SV must be right around the corner and that'll be something else to look at and say awww crap.

Mark

I have noticed the Swarovski 8x32 EL's going for less than $1K for like new ones on E-Bay. Why would ANYBODY buy an SLC when you can get an EL for the same price!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Swarovski-O...280768902310?pt=Binocular&hash=item415f2174a6

 

[[email protected]]

I think you forgot something...

remember,
binoculars are just tools to help us see better
we want the best tool for the job that our budget will allow

I am flattered that you are quoting me Brock but that was before I seen the light or rather the light through a Zeiss 8x32 FL.

 

[brocknroller]

Hmm, me thinks those look familiar. There isn't any ED glass in the second bin but there is a specific type of element/design in the eyepiece to flatten the field.

methinks you are right. Same specs. Big difference in price though. Here's an 8x42 ZRS HD for $205 on ZR's Website:

http://www.zen-ray.com/shop/zrshd8x42.html

That's around 133 GBP for the ZRS HD vs. 499 GBP for the RSVP. I think I won't return that invitation. -

The British version is more elegant looking, but if it's essentially a dressed up Chinese-made ZRS HD, it's not worth over 3x the cost.

Hope everybody got their Black Eye Friday shopping done without getting pepper sprayed or trampled!

Brock