Barbary dove or hybrid (2 Viewers)

[njlarsen]

Yesterday, I had two doves sit nicely for me, in a position where I could take photos of the undertail. My interpretation is that the right hand bird is certainly a Eur Collared Dove, with grey undertail coverts and black on outer vane of the outermost tail feather. However, the other seems to be a Barbary, with white undertail coverts and lack of black on outer vane. However, is there anything indicating a hybrid? It looks like next generation will be hybrids
Niels

 

[THE_FERN]

Yesterday, I had two doves sit nicely for me, in a position where I could take photos of the undertail. My interpretation is that the right hand bird is certainly a Eur Collared Dove, with grey undertail coverts and black on outer vane of the outermost tail feather. However, the other seems to be a Barbary, with white undertail coverts and lack of black on outer vane. However, is there anything indicating a hybrid? It looks like next generation will be hybrids
Niels
View attachment 1550821View attachment 1550822

In what sense are you using the name "Barbary Dove"? There's confusion:

Barbary dove - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This bird has bright red eyes and pale pink feet. All the dark feathering is pale. Is it leucistic rather than albino, though (I think so)? Certainly a domestic or feral thing. As to its parentage...

 

[njlarsen]

In what sense are you using the name "Barbary Dove"?

In the sense of the domesticated bird that currently is considered to be derived from African Collared Dove. On this side of the Atlantic, both this and Eurasian Collared Dove originate from escaped birds.
Niels

 

[Butty]

Could you give the location, please? Thanks.
Given that the left-hand bird is pale overall I don't see any significance in its having white undertail-coverts. Neither bird clearly shows a black outer vane to the outermost tail-feather. The pale bird has less black at the tail-base, but Svensson edn 3 doesn't give any aspect of undertail-pattern as an ID feature.
I can't see a reason to think it's other than an aberrant and/or domesticated form of Eurasian collared dove.

 

[THE_FERN]

In the sense of the domesticated bird that currently is considered to be derived from African Collared Dove. On this side of the Atlantic, both this and Eurasian Collared Dove originate from escaped birds.
Niels

So you're asking whether it's a eurasian-african collared dove hybrid? Suggest there's no way to tell (especially given its abnormal pigmentation) and there's a good chance it's got hybridity in its ancestry anyway. The undertail pattern +/- exactly corresponds to Sibley's illustration of "ringed turtle dove" so perhaps it's a pure impurity.

 

[njlarsen]

Could you give the location, please? Thanks.
Given that the left-hand bird is pale overall I don't see any significance in its having white undertail-coverts. Neither bird clearly shows a black outer vane to the outermost tail-feather. The pale bird has less black at the tail-base, but Svensson edn 3 doesn't give any aspect of undertail-pattern as an ID feature.
I can't see a reason to think it's other than an aberrant and/or domesticated form of Eurasian collared dove.

Location is Barbados, date yesterday, sorry for not including.

I was looking at the links in this post in a previous thread, for the signs of Barbary vs Eur. However, it is unclear to me how to recognize a hybrid based on this. Tenerife collared doves

Niels

 

[njlarsen]

Niels

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

It doesn´t work well with pale color mutations , so I am afraid I can not give a definite answer here.... sorry