Gull ID help please, Iraq, April 2022 (2 Viewers)

[bhutjoe]

Hi, these photos were taken in April 5, 2022 in Ramadi along the Euphrates north of Baghdad. I have been struggling with them for a bit, clearly, and think they show a 2cy and an adult Armenian gull (there may be more than one of each in these photos) among a group of black-headed gulls.

For the 2cy, my reasoning was because of the amount of white on the underside and topside of the wings, and how brown the top of the wings are (especially photos 1cad, and 1cab), along with the brownish undertail coverts as separating it (them) from Lesser Black-backed or other gulls. Photo 1caa though seems to show some of the coverts being grey, suggesting a 3 cy? Similarly the back of younger large gull in 1cac seems to be quite grey as well, another 3cy?

For adult(s) I was going primarily by the lack of white spots on the outer primaries, though any photo of Armenian adult seems to show at least one white panel. However, Armenian I think has fewer primary feathers with a white panel than others. And several photos (e.g. 1ca4, 1cac) show a white tip to the innermost primary, which I have not found on any photos of any of the gulls recorded in Iraq. So a bit confused still.

All comments and critiques welcome
thank you in advance
steve

 

[bhutjoe]

Hi, I have bumped this up, hopefully this is okay, as I think I have come close to id'ing armenian gulls here in Iraq but have not received 100% confident confirmation, because the photos have not been what is required. I believe earlier attempts have resulted in comments about needing underwing shots, which I have been trying to obtain. I would appreciate any comments on these and what is needed to either confirm Armenian gulls or suggestions to other species or what is needed to confirm whatever species these might be. Or if better photos are needed
As always, all comments and critiques most welcome
thank you in advance
steve

 

[lou salomon]

Hi Steve,
yes, all the large gulls in these pics can be safely identified as L. armenicus. In the 3rd cycle I think there can be little doubt, looks very typical, and also in the first cycles/winters stubby bills with blunt tips and yellowish base, pale underwings, overall pale and nondescript pattern on 2nd generation coverts and scapulars and relatively narrow tail band shold exclude both cachinnans and barabensis.

cheers

 

[bhutjoe]

Thank you very much Lou, both for confirmation and the identification comments. Now to find cachinnans and barabensis here.
all the best
steve