Import and bringing as a tourist are quite different - birders are travelling to Saudi Arabia these days, have they been any confiscations of optics at their airports?
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Binoculars confiscated by Egyptian authorities at airport (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rkj
- Start date
I think there are several things going on here and they are getting conflated with each other.
1) Security concerns: countries will restrict what people bring in, in case they are spying. Sometimes what can and can't be brought in is explicitly stated, but sometimes only when you reach the border control and sometimes it is at the whim of the border staff.
2) Customs concerns: If you are bringing high-value goods into a country most countries will require you to declare those items or even to legal import them into the country. A camera and scope laden birder could easily have $10,000 or more in kit. Again sometimes these regulations are stated in advance, sometimes they are just at the border.
The application of both of these can be at the whim of the individual border/customs officer.
3) Rinsing the tourist: Some countries demand permits for professional photography. You can explain all you want that you are an amateur but having thousands of dollars worth of "professional" kit won't help your case.
4) Out and out criminality: Bent officials will impound kit either wanting bribes for its return or just to rob it.
The main problem is the lack of information. A quick search for Saudi Arabia yields different info from different sources. The UK Government Travel Advice page says, "Binoculars should not be brought into Saudi Arabia and may be confiscated at the port of entry." A Saudi travel agency lists, "Binoculars, night-vision equipment or telescopic equipment, drones" amongst "prohibited items". The official Saudi tourism site says absolutely nothing on the subject.
1) Security concerns: countries will restrict what people bring in, in case they are spying. Sometimes what can and can't be brought in is explicitly stated, but sometimes only when you reach the border control and sometimes it is at the whim of the border staff.
2) Customs concerns: If you are bringing high-value goods into a country most countries will require you to declare those items or even to legal import them into the country. A camera and scope laden birder could easily have $10,000 or more in kit. Again sometimes these regulations are stated in advance, sometimes they are just at the border.
The application of both of these can be at the whim of the individual border/customs officer.
3) Rinsing the tourist: Some countries demand permits for professional photography. You can explain all you want that you are an amateur but having thousands of dollars worth of "professional" kit won't help your case.
4) Out and out criminality: Bent officials will impound kit either wanting bribes for its return or just to rob it.
The main problem is the lack of information. A quick search for Saudi Arabia yields different info from different sources. The UK Government Travel Advice page says, "Binoculars should not be brought into Saudi Arabia and may be confiscated at the port of entry." A Saudi travel agency lists, "Binoculars, night-vision equipment or telescopic equipment, drones" amongst "prohibited items". The official Saudi tourism site says absolutely nothing on the subject.
MiddleRiver
Well-known member
Agree on all points and importing is clearly thread drift. Guilty.
But my point was to lament the fact that many of us are spoiled be relative lack of such restrictions. Last year I sailed along a river which passed possibly the largest naval base in the world. We were often rock-throwing distance from subs, carriers, and other military ships. And yes we were taking pics simply because it was interesting and we were acting like the tourists we were! Not sure you could do that in many countries…
But my point was to lament the fact that many of us are spoiled be relative lack of such restrictions. Last year I sailed along a river which passed possibly the largest naval base in the world. We were often rock-throwing distance from subs, carriers, and other military ships. And yes we were taking pics simply because it was interesting and we were acting like the tourists we were! Not sure you could do that in many countries…
DMW
Well-known member
I don't think it's thread drift to bring up importing. The problem with Saudi Arabia is that there is, officially, an import ban. I contacted the Saudi authorities asking them to clarify whether this rule applied to tourists just bringing in binoculars for a short visit, and taking them out of the country when they left. The response was to just send me an extract of the customs law prohibiting import, without comment.
I also contacted expat birders in Saudi and they said they had brought binoculars in and out on a frequent basis with no problem. When we visited recently, with binoculars and telescopes, we had no problem at all.
I think in this case the problem is partly that Saudi has only recently opened to tourists, and they haven't really updated their regulations to deal with tourism. However, they are very keen to welcome tourists and I would be surprised if they tried to make life hard for birders with personal optics.
We actually met a few Saudis who were very interested in our binoculars and were amazed at how good they were, and expressed a wish to buy a pair. For an exporter with the right connections, this could be a very lucrative market.
I would be nervous about bringing night vision equipment into the country, though!
jurek
Well-known member
It was end of 2022.
Ethiopia has potential to benefit as much from wildlife tourism as Kenya or Tanzania, but its custom regulations are ruining it.
dwatsonbirder
Well-known member
Interesting, I suspected that may be the case in terms of timing. I wonder if that may be bypassed by avoiding Tigray province?
I agree with regard for ecotourism potential, in addition to being a stunningly beautiful country, with warm friendly people, great food and fab endemics!
Just to clarify, the only report I can find on Mammal watching is from a trip in Dec 2021.
Prior to the pandemic I used to lead trips in Ethiopia and had not had a problem, either for me or my clients.
I wonder if things have changed again with the recent peace agreement in Tigre
iraqbabbler
Well-known member
No! The main problem is the lack of human rights and human dignity in such countries, and the concomitant absence of the rule of law or at least the haphazard application of the law. You have no rights in such places. It's as simple as that.
Well put! That's the whole point. I mean what good is it to you if three out of five people may not get hassled and you're one of the other two? I'll tell you something: it sure ain't a nice feeling seeing your expensive optical equipment taken away from you through no fault of your own whatsoever. It's thieving - as simple as that.
Oh, and by the way, it's nothing to do with spying or any of that crap. I mean birding bins are not strong enough for that, and anyway, they can simply put up signs saying you can't use them in sensitive areas (as they do with cameras). It's thieving and that's all there is to it.
Acrocephalus
Well-known member
Here is the thing. Neither my nor your opinion matter. Members of this forum and worldwide community of birders (and other tourists for that matter) are not stupid. They know more than we do, and they can make their own decisions in terms where they want to go and when.
I have seen your previous comments, and I can tell you, I didn’t like them.
sbpbirder
Well-known member
Hi kimmik, we're off to Luxor next month. Was thinking binoculars would be multi-purpose for birds and monuments. We were thinking of taking our pocket swaros, best not then? Are there tourist folk using binoculars or will you stand out if doing so? Ta.
kimmik
Well-known member
Not many bino users in egypt but we absolutely enjoyed using ours when we got some privacy. If I went again I'd take a cheaper pair, like the papilio, which will be more useful in the museums and also less at stake. Poverty seems to make people do many things...
sbpbirder
Well-known member
Ooh that is cool, although I don't know what it is!
Yes, poverty is indeed iniquitous. I think I'll have a look for some cheapo pocket bins and get a pair for us to share.Just for more info I've seen people say put them in your hold luggage - but then you get pulled aside (maybe) and have your bags checked. Is it better/okay to carry them on board in a rucksack say?
sbpbirder
Well-known member
iraqbabbler
Well-known member
It's not really about poverty. I've been to much poorer countries and had no problem whatsoever - no one at the airport or even in the poorest of villages there attempted to take anything off me. The issue is that here in the Middle East, many people (including unfortunately many in authority) have no concept of what private ownership is! They see something and simply decide to steal it! It's a cultural thing.
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Doesn't their religion forbid such behaviour? Does it not punish the transgressors or do they implement some sort of forgiveness system whereby the slate is wiped clean- until the next act of sinful behaviour which is then forgiven, the slate is wiped clean............... and so it goes on and on, like Groundhog Day?
Surely that's an over-generalisation. Which countries are you referring to and what are the crime rates in relation to theft?
Doesn't their religion forbid such behaviour? Does it not punish the transgressors or do they implement some sort of forgiveness system whereby the slate is wiped clean- until the next act of sinful behaviour which is then forgiven, the slate is wiped clean............... and so it goes on and on, like Groundhog Day?
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Tomeitsparadise
Member
What did you do/ say to end up keeping them? We are due to spend a week on the beach after 6 weeks birding in the Horn of Africa and of course will have our binoculars with us.
Please can you let us know how things turn out please?
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