Andrew1993
Member
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Bird- Slovakia (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Andrew1993
- Start date
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- bird- slovakia
Stonefaction
Dundee Birding....(target 150 in 2024).
Yellowhammer?
Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
Hello Andrew,
welcome to Birdforum!
At first, I agreed with you: Corn Bunting seemed a better match (by large bill and square, cubic head).
But when your friends observed the parents with some red on the male’s chest, than they are most propably Yellowhammers (or rarer Buntings where I havent seen fledgings before, like Ortolan or Black headed Bunting). And Stonefaction and Armand are right. Thanks!
Quite a few YH are even more/intense reddish on the breast than the attached bird (25.05.2013, Schwetzinger Wiesen, SW-Germany)
welcome to Birdforum!
At first, I agreed with you: Corn Bunting seemed a better match (by large bill and square, cubic head).
But when your friends observed the parents with some red on the male’s chest, than they are most propably Yellowhammers (or rarer Buntings where I havent seen fledgings before, like Ortolan or Black headed Bunting). And Stonefaction and Armand are right. Thanks!
Quite a few YH are even more/intense reddish on the breast than the attached bird (25.05.2013, Schwetzinger Wiesen, SW-Germany)
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Armand
Well-known member
i have no confidence in non birder's evaluations and like alexander suggests above, one saying 'red on chest' wouldn't put me off yellowhammer as i can see the chest streaking being interpretated that way (without further inquiry of the observer)
i do agree on the bill looking too heavy and considered Black-headed/Corn (even Greenfinch on bill size) but nothing else match those species and the bill looks even heavier than those species, more in Hawfinch/new world grosbeak territory but i can't see anything else to suggest those species either
which brings me back to yellowhammer when looking at the bird holistically (proportionately, bills on nestling/fledglings often look bigger and i put the bill query down to that when all things considered, from the pic to location)
i do agree on the bill looking too heavy and considered Black-headed/Corn (even Greenfinch on bill size) but nothing else match those species and the bill looks even heavier than those species, more in Hawfinch/new world grosbeak territory but i can't see anything else to suggest those species either
which brings me back to yellowhammer when looking at the bird holistically (proportionately, bills on nestling/fledglings often look bigger and i put the bill query down to that when all things considered, from the pic to location)
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Coo, at last someone blunt (that wouldn't ever be me, obviously) dares to say what I guess/hope many of us are often left thinking
I agree about the huge bill. Why isn't it a juvenile greenfinch?
Armand
Well-known member
colouration of the upperparts (and generally) + strength of head streaking fits more yellowhammer than greenfinch for me
but it's clearly not written in stone, is the colouration even reliable and not leaf casting colours?
checking the bill again - besides heftiness, shape actually is more in keeping with greenfinch, in that the lower mandible is squared off in that species (like the pic) and cone shaped (convex) in yellowhammer
still not happy with it, i dont see greenfinch if im to rely on the pic as it is, and that bill is a problem for yellowhammer
On the no confidence in non birders front, a relative once rang me while they were in shetland (and this is a relative with an interest in birds and ok ID for her garden birds) and said she thought she had an albatross lol. So as im trying to get info off her she exclaims 'oh, there's two!' to which i reply 'it's not an albatross'. She tells me to hang on and then sends a pic. Two herring gulls feeding at her feet. Tongue in cheek i told her never phone me again
but it's clearly not written in stone, is the colouration even reliable and not leaf casting colours?
checking the bill again - besides heftiness, shape actually is more in keeping with greenfinch, in that the lower mandible is squared off in that species (like the pic) and cone shaped (convex) in yellowhammer
still not happy with it, i dont see greenfinch if im to rely on the pic as it is, and that bill is a problem for yellowhammer
On the no confidence in non birders front, a relative once rang me while they were in shetland (and this is a relative with an interest in birds and ok ID for her garden birds) and said she thought she had an albatross lol. So as im trying to get info off her she exclaims 'oh, there's two!' to which i reply 'it's not an albatross'. She tells me to hang on and then sends a pic. Two herring gulls feeding at her feet. Tongue in cheek i told her never phone me again
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Andrew1993
Member
Ortolan bunting looks right to the description of the male, and the females look very similar to the one in the pic, though I do not see any white eye ring on it.
But almost non found in Slovakia, while yellowhammers are quiet common there. So probably it is a yellowhammer. Thank you for all your help
But almost non found in Slovakia, while yellowhammers are quiet common there. So probably it is a yellowhammer. Thank you for all your help
Richard Dale
Well-known member
Look like linnets to me. Nest looks okay for this species also. Bill structure is completely wrong for a bunting (upper mandible is noticeably narrower than lower in buntings, very obvious when viewed head on as in first photo).
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
To remind those that should know better, one of the site rules is 'no pictures of eggs or nests'. The nestlings in this image are clearly aware of the photographer which amounts to disturbance.
Bewick
Connoisseur of WTL
The photos were taken by non-birders, they probably weren't aware that they were disturbing the birds.
Could it not be a Serin?
CARERY
Well-known member
I guess you nailed it. A better fit than Linnet!
Andrew1993
Member
Linnet would match the red chest patch. I’ll try to get them to take a picture of the adults hanging around sometimes or just send a picture of a linnet to them.
Andrew1993
Member
Mistery solved. It’s an Ortolan bunting family.
CARERY
Well-known member
By whom and how? Were the parents seen? A Cherry Laurel (?) seems to a really strange place for a nest of an Ortolan Bunting, since they are ground-nesting...
Andrew1993
Member
They do mostly nest on the ground, but sometimes found in low bushes. My friend went over for a holiday and took pictures of them as they often hang around.
Andrew1993
Member
The first two pictures were taken by her non birdwatcher parents as clearly stated. Having a many month old not used nest means what… ? I don’t quite get your logic.
Secondly, probably there is a significant time period between the two pictures( one with one without the chicks) taken, I don’t know to be honest. They were just sent to me couple of weeks ago to find out if I had know what they were.
Finally, my friend went over to visit the parents who showed her the type of birds that they had on nests before as they are around. She managed to photograph them.
The reason why we are not discussing those pictures is that I know what an ortolan bunting is in adult plumage.
It might all be odd to you, that’s your problem.
My problem is solved.
All the best
Secondly, probably there is a significant time period between the two pictures( one with one without the chicks) taken, I don’t know to be honest. They were just sent to me couple of weeks ago to find out if I had know what they were.
Finally, my friend went over to visit the parents who showed her the type of birds that they had on nests before as they are around. She managed to photograph them.
The reason why we are not discussing those pictures is that I know what an ortolan bunting is in adult plumage.
It might all be odd to you, that’s your problem.
My problem is solved.
All the best
