Celestron Regal F-ED65 (2 Viewers)

[Kevin Purcell]

And at 61oz, do I need a stronger tripod and head then usual?

Check the loading figures for both the tripod and the head

61 ounces = 1.72932091 kilograms (says Google )
61 ounces = 3.8125 pounds

So it's getting up there.

e.g. the classic Manfrotto 190 + 128

190 Maximum Load 8.8 pounds (so 2lb head + 4 lb scope is OK ... ish).
128 has a load limit of 8.9 pounds
700RC2 Maximum Load 5.5 pounds (closer ...)

But I suspect you do need a decent tripod/head for this one.

Check your tripod and how much overrated (50%? 100%?) for the load you'd like to have the head/tripod combo.

 

[kristoffer]

Yeah, thanks! You US and UK guys really need to start using the metric system, I would be crippled without googles converter.

I got a tripod and 128 head for my swaro this one could use (or at least try with to see if it tolerates the weight), then I also get a reason to buy a carbon tripod for the swaro.

It is interesting with the weight of this scope, good optics is heavy huh?

Check the loading figures for both the tripod and the head

61 ounces = 1.72932091 kilograms (says Google )
61 ounces = 3.8125 pounds

So it's getting up there.

e.g. the classic Manfrotto 190 + 128

190 Maximum Load 8.8 pounds (so 2lb head + 4 lb scope is OK ... ish).
128 has a load limit of 8.9 pounds
700RC2 Maximum Load 5.5 pounds (closer ...)

But I suspect you do need a decent tripod/head for this one.

Check your tripod and how much overrated (50%? 100%?) for the load you'd like to have the head/tripod combo.

 

[bearclawthedonut]

FrankD & Kristoffer:

Just got off the phone with a Celestron "Technical Rep"; he answered the following questions (to the best of his ability and knowledge):
1. Scope body is 13". What is LOA with ep? He got the scope and measured 16" overall.
2. Scope weight listed as 61 oz, what does ep weigh? He weighed the scope - 64 oz with ep in place. Ep alone weighs 14 oz, that is a heavy zoom ep. Obviously, these weights depend on the accuracy of his scale.
3. Confirmed that the ep is a new design for Regal series scopes. Also confirmed ep AFOV 42-62 degrees. He also said, he did not believe any ED or Lanthanum glass was used in ep.
4. Confirmed that both the scope body and ep are made in China.
5. Will scope body and/or ep be offered for sale seperately? Not presently. Perhaps the ep at a later date?
6. Is "Fluorite Glass" used in the objective lens assembly? He said "Yes". I clarified, not as an additive or as a coating but fluorite glass used as a lens element in the objective assembly? With no hesitation, he again said "Yes". Remember, this is all to the best of his knowledge.
7. Most importantly, will my WO zoom ep fit and come to focus in the Regal 65 F-ED? He said it would if it was a 1.25" ep. I explained the difficulty in finding zoom ep's with good ER that will both fit and focus in the Pentax PF-65ED. He said it should work. This is still an unknown.
8. What is the scope body made from? Aluminum.
9. Is the tripod adaptor/plate and body ring - one piece? Yes.
10. Are all prisms Poro? Yes.
11. Is the "soft carry case" a form fit wth zip-off ends that allows use on a tripod. Yes. Wrong answer as far as I'm concerned. I want and need a padded carrying case not some silly scopecoat.

All my remaining questions but two have now been answered. Where can I find one (Regal 65F-ED) to look through? and, Will my WO zoom actually fit and focus?

FrankD does the above sound right to you?

 

[kristoffer]

Thanks for the info. Very interesting! The scope still sounds like a winner. I do like that the case is a SOC and that it is included. Hell, my SOC for my Swarovski cost like half this scope. All the recommendations from bf has worked nicely so far so I calculate to buy it before I have a chance to look through it. That is if frank still like it.

 

[mooreorless]

"All my remaining questions but two have now been answered. Where can I find one (Regal 65F-ED) to look through? and, Will my WO zoom actually fit and focus?"


Donut, You can buy one of these from Adorama, B&H you have to order and pay up front and no cancel. I don't know anywhere you can try before you buy. I think you have 14 days with Adorama.
Regards,Steve

 

[henry link]

6. Is "Fluorite Glass" used in the objective lens assembly? He said "Yes". I clarified, not as an additive or as a coating but fluorite glass used as a lens element in the objective assembly? With no hesitation, he again said "Yes". Remember, this is all to the best of his knowledge.

"Fluorite" is not glass. If the objective is made from any kind of glass it isn't Fluorite (CaF2). Marketeers seem to love to sow confusion about this, perhaps because they know that people think Fluorite is the gold standard for color correction even if they don't know why. If these scopes were truly designed for the best possible color correction they would be triplets, not doublets.

The easy way to tell if a lens is made of pure Fluorite is to shine a green laser through it. Any type of glass will show a trail of scattered laser light inside the glass, but a lens made of CaF2 will show no scattering at all. In the photo below I shined a green laser through a true Fluorite doublet (Takahashi SKY90). The laser shines from the right to left. It makes a spot on the front a back surfaces of the Fluorite element on the right, but leaves no light trail inside. The trail of scattered light is obvious in the second element on the left which is made of glass.

 

[mooreorless]

Hi Henry, There is no doubt about the Sky 90. Thanks for posting this.
Regards,Steve

 

[bearclawthedonut]

Henry Link:

Great photo. If I can find one (Regal 65 F-ED) to look through (presumably in a retail environment) will a green laser pointer work? Precisely how should this be done in order to see the results and not bath my eye in laser light if something goes wrong? Should the eyepiece be removed? Shine the laser through the objective? Look where for the results? If lens is made of CaF2, I assume result will look per your photo (cool). What will it look like if element is not made of CaF2? How can I perform this test without getting arrested? How much bail money should I bring? How did you take the photo - through your scope's eyepiece? Again, great photo!

Mooreorless:

Yes, Adorama is very reputable. However, as I wear eyeglasses (and thus require good eye relief), I try to make a practise of actually having hands on experience with optics befor I purchase and even then, the occasional unhappy purchase sometimes occurs. Yes, this is terribly old fashioned, but it sometimes saves me disappointment. However, in the case of the Celestron Regal spotting scopes - they are not available in stores at least not in Portland, OR. I do no want to buy blind, but...

 

[mayoayo]

Henry..
The regal Is a Budget scope!!! a Fluorite Triplet!!!!!!..or any ED triplet!!!!!!..When I say Budget I am not trying to take away merit to this scope,..420$ including eyepiece ,ED(CaF2????)is quite amazing.Of course is Chinese,No other economy can offer these prices nowadays.
I dont think the limitations of the prism/system would benefit much more from an extra element,For moderate power anyway.Any Decent ED doublet(let aside Fluorite)should take care of color aberration to a non objectionable level.
By the way...Which Eyepiece would add the lowest levels of lateral color?...

BCTheDonut..The William Optics Zoom should do a great Job in the Celestron..And It would be interesting to see how the Regal Zoom performs in your telescope..

 

[Kevin Purcell]

It's not crystaline CAF2. Henry already said this. So I'll just follow up.

It's probably a Chinese flurophosphate glass just like the Chinese ED bins. If you are unlucky it's a chinese FK glass (fluorite crown with anomalous dispersion but not ED ... still a glass) but given FrankD's report I think not. Some FPK-alike glass. Just like the ED astro refractors.

Yes, they do add the fluoride ions by adding calcium fluorite to the melt but it's not CAF2.

Seriously you can't make a crystalline CAF2 objective that cheap (even the wily Chinese can do it!).

 

[henry link]

Henry..
The regal Is a Budget scope!!! a Fluorite Triplet!!!!!!..or any ED triplet!!!!!!..When I say Budget I am not trying to take away merit to this scope,..420$ including eyepiece ,ED(CaF2????)is quite amazing.Of course is Chinese,No other economy can offer these prices nowadays.
I dont think the limitations of the prism/system would benefit much more from an extra element,For moderate power anyway.Any Decent ED doublet(let aside Fluorite)should take care of color aberration to a non objectionable level.
By the way...Which Eyepiece would add the lowest levels of lateral color?...

Mayoayo,

Yes, the regal is a budget scope, which is why Celestron's claim that the "...Regal F-ED spotting scopes feature an air-spaced doublet, one element of which is made from the exotic mineral fluorite...." seems so improbable. Anyway, it's an easy claim to test.

I mention triplets only because that's what it takes to achieve a really color free telescope at f/6. It is done (at f/5.7) by the Kowa 88mm Fluorite triplets, even with prisms in the optical train (yes I know they're more expensive). The Regal 65 and 80mm f/6 doublets probably do well enough at spotting scope magnifications, as you say, but I have some doubts about the f/5.4 100mm version. Then there is the as yet undiscussed question of spherical aberration, which is usually worse than chromatic in fast ED scopes like these.

Bearclaw,

The photo below shows how it was done. The camera is off to one side of the objective and the laser pointer is held at a slight angle in front of the objective pointing through the middle of the lenses, but I wouldn't bother with the laser test, especially in a store. You need a dark room because the light trail inside ED glass will be quite dim. Besides, you might put your eye out with that thing.

Henry

 

[kristoffer]

I mention triplets only because that's what it takes to achieve a really color free telescope at f/6. It is done (at f/5.7) by the Kowa 88mm Fluorite triplets,

Is that Kowa the only one with that setup?

 

[bearclawthedonut]

Henry Link:

Thank you very much for the excellent photo and explanation for the green laser test. I, now, understand how to perform the test. The bit about doing it in a store, my likely arrest and bail money was my attempt at a joke. If (growing more and more likely) I purchase the Regal 65, I'll try your test.

FrankD's excellent review and follow-up assures that the scope and ep will meet my needs. The ep included with the scope has typical zoom ER and that is a bit less than I prefer. The WO zoom has better ER, but will it fit and focus? Only way to find out is to give it a try. So...

 

[henry link]

Kristoffer,

I mentioned the Kowa because I tested it not too long ago and found it to be essentially color free, even at magnifications well above 100x. It's the only spotting scope known to me that uses Fluorite (and supposedly the best choices for mating glass types), but many other scopes use the same basic objective arrangement of a fixed triplet and a moving focusing doublet. However, not all the others necessarily use the best ED glass or match the ED with the best choices of mating glasses, so probably many of them don't correct CA quite as well as the Kowa.

Henry

 

[kristoffer]

Ok, interesting! So fluorite is actually a feature is worth something when it comes to performance. No wonder the Kowa is best then, best on paper and in the field.
Does not swarovskis HD equal Kowas fluorite? It is quite expensive to get the HD glass.

Kristoffer,

I mentioned the Kowa because I tested it not too long ago and found it to be essentially color free, even at magnifications well above 100x. It's the only spotting scope known to me that uses Fluorite (and supposedly the best choices for mating glass types), but many other scopes use the same basic objective arrangement of a fixed triplet and a moving focusing doublet. However, not all the others necessarily use the best ED glass or match the ED with the best choices of mating glasses, so probably many of them don't correct CA quite as well as the Kowa.

Henry

 

[FrankD]

7. Most importantly, will my WO zoom ep fit and come to focus in the Regal 65 F-ED? He said it would if it was a 1.25" ep. I explained the difficulty in finding zoom ep's with good ER that will both fit and focus in the Pentax PF-65ED. He said it should work. This is still an unknown.

I wish I had an answer for that one. The inexpensive Celestron zoom (not the included one) works. The Plano zoom (Baader Hyperion clone) will not reach focus at infinity. It seems just a very small amount short of doing it. The Pentax XW20 mm reaches focus at a infinity but just barely...while a "little" Meade 25 mm Plossly does not even come close.

To say that any 1.25 inch eyepiece will work with the scope is not entirely accurate. Everything else you posted seems to be right in line with my experiences.

I took the 65 mm out with my on a 5 day camping trip. We just came home an hour or two ago. It is late but I will post more tomorrow.

 

[mayoayo]

Optolith has some massive scopes that use Fluorite (PURE)in the objective...They are expensive,and they seem PRETTY well made,by the way..Wouldnt mind one!

 

[henry link]

Ok, interesting! So fluorite is actually a feature is worth something when it comes to performance. No wonder the Kowa is best then, best on paper and in the field.
Does not swarovskis HD equal Kowas fluorite? It is quite expensive to get the HD glass.

Kristoffer,

The Kowa's worthwhile feature is the lack of color, not the use of Fluorite. The same thing can be accomplished with glass if the right types are used.

As for how Swarovski compares to Kowa, there is a recent comparison test of the new Leica, Swarovski and Kowa here:

http://www.tvwg.nl/testrapporten/telescoop/Leica Apo-Televid 82 en Swarovski ATM80HD.htm

All in Dutch, I'm afraid. The digiscoped test patterns are supposed to show resolution differences rather than CA, but some CA differences are visible. I think it's clear that these particular specimens of the Leica and Swarovski scopes were not equal to this Kowa in either resolution or CA correction. The superior resolution of the Kowa could be due to larger aperture and/or sample variation, but CA correction is not much subject to sample variation and not improved by larger aperture.


Henry

 

[mayoayo]

The images in the test show a considerable difference...Contrast and resolution are obvious and also color correction...If they are the similar focal length and they reach the same power at the max. magnification of their zooms,The larger aperture of the Kowa should make it nominally brighter,but it should not affect resolution..If the scope is better color corrected ,this in itself would increase contrast and resolution..for what is worth,it seems that Fluorite really still at the Top..
What would be really interesting is to do a similar test comparing the large Kowa PROMINAR 883,that uses Fluorite and the smaller Kowa PROMINAR 773,with exact design ,but using ED glass..Then design differences would not count ,only Glass type (and specimen)...Also would be good to compare the Leica/Swaro new models and
the 773...And compare the 883 with the Fluorite Optolyth models...I'll just call all this manufacturers and ask them for a "COUPLE " of samples each...

 

[kristoffer]

Are you pulling the trigger on the "buy button" yet? I am close but I need to know more about the 80mm version first.

Henry Link:

Thank you very much for the excellent photo and explanation for the green laser test. I, now, understand how to perform the test. The bit about doing it in a store, my likely arrest and bail money was my attempt at a joke. If (growing more and more likely) I purchase the Regal 65, I'll try your test.

FrankD's excellent review and follow-up assures that the scope and ep will meet my needs. The ep included with the scope has typical zoom ER and that is a bit less than I prefer. The WO zoom has better ER, but will it fit and focus? Only way to find out is to give it a try. So...