Chough & Falcon - Italy (1 Viewer)

[John Fordham]

Hi,
Could you please help with ID of these two. Taken this week in Abruzzo National Park.

Pic1 and Pic2 - Altitude 1650m. I was hoping these were Alpine Chough but based on fingerlength, think they are Chough. Can you confirm. Both are present in the Park. They were a large flock as shown in first pic. Pic2 is just zoomed in on part of main picture.

Pic3 and Pic4 - not sure. Again at high altitude. Did not hover like a kestrel.

Many thanks
John

 

[Bird Hard 2]

Pic 3 and 4 are of a Kestrel.
For Pic 1 and 2, I wouldn't argue that they weren't Coughs. In fact I think I can see red on some of the birds in Pic 2.

 

[rosbifs]

6 fingers and quite long bills indicates Chough (red billed), however, a couple of the birds do look to have yellow bills - Alpine!!??
Last two Kestrel.

 

[riyat]

1 and 2 exactly choughs. Uniformly broad wings (rectangled) and short tails..

 

[John Fordham]

Many thanks for the IDs.
Cheers
John

 

[jforgham]

6 fingers and quite long bills indicates Chough (red billed), however, a couple of the birds do look to have yellow bills - Alpine!!??
Last two Kestrel.

Don't 1st cy choughs have yellow bills?
Jono

 

[lostinjapan]

Young Chough do have a short dull yellowish bills.

However, I have seen them in mixed flocks in the Pyrenees.

S'funny I thought the raptor might be good for female/immature Lesser Kestrel - bluntish wings, pale underwing and paler primaries and secondaries.,,but everyone seems to think Common Kestrel....

Sean

 

[deborah4]

S'funny I thought the raptor might be good for female/immature Lesser Kestrel - bluntish wings, pale underwing and paler primaries and secondaries.,,but everyone seems to think Common Kestrel....

Sean

I wondered this too, especially given John's observation regarding absence of hovering and rather looking gizzy smallish! - but thought perhaps it was just a bit too boldly marked? Too long a tail?

 

[Simon G]

I wondered this too, especially given John's observation regarding absence of hovering and rather looking gizzy smallish! - but thought perhaps it was just a bit too boldly marked? Too long a tail?

Isn't a single bird seen in the mountains more likely to be Common than Lesser? The absence of hovering isn't a problem as (Common) kestrels frequently use updrafts where available, but it's a shame that pic 4 suggests that the bird is eating an insect on the wing

 

[John Fordham]

Hi Simon,
It was pretty warm on the mountain where bird was seen and there were also strong winds blowing. Might be explanation.

It seems concensus is that is Common Kestrel. Sad as Lesser Kestrel would be a new one for me (I can't see how to add 'smilies' to a Quick Reply).

Cheers
John

 

[heuglini]

In Abruzzo at high altitudines is very difficult to find Lesser kestrel, if not during migration periods. I'm quite sure your falcon is a kestrel.
And the choughs...those I can see well look all good for pyrrhocorax, but is not impossible that some graculus were present...

ciao
Michele