Closest thing to an Alpha..... (1 Viewer)

[FrankD]

So, what is the closest binocular, in terms of optical performance, that provides an "Alpha" view without having to pay Alpha prices?

Three that immediately come to mind are the Nikon SE, Swaro Habichts and Zeiss Conquest HD. Great bins all but $1000 is still pretty steep in this day and time for most folks that aren't diehard optics afficianados. Further, I have a hard time swallowing $700 new for an 8x32 SE when they were only selling for $500 a few years ago.

What then is alpha performance at less than half the alpha price?

 

[mosschops]

Oh My God. Do we really need to discuss this AGAIN!! I visit this section occasionally to find out whats new in the world of optics. All I seem to see is 'Which is the best Alpha', 'What are best? roof or porro?' and 'Which is the best non-apha'. Boring, boring, yawn....

 

[gcole]

Oh My God. Do we really need to discuss this AGAIN!! I visit this section occasionally to find out whats new in the world of optics. All I seem to see is 'Which is the best Alpha', 'What are best? roof or porro?' and 'Which is the best non-apha'. Boring, boring, yawn....

Boriny to some maybe ? What about those of us or the new members to the forum who have not had the experience or chance to go some place where one can see for themselves what an Alpha view looks like compared to all the other fine binoculars out there that cost a lot less to purchase. I am with Frank , its always interesting to read about what other people think about the binoculars they have used/owned. ..... gwen

 

[A2GG]

Boriny to some maybe ? What about those of us or the new members to the forum who have not had the experience or chance to go some place where one can see for themselves what an Alpha view looks like compared to all the other fine binoculars out there that cost a lot less to purchase. I am with Frank , its always interesting to read about what other people think about the binoculars they have used/owned. ..... gwen

Agree...and, Frank provides a valuable service here on the forum extensively reviewing affordable binoculars. He has lots of experience and its appropriate he leads a discussion on this type of topic.

I agree that the 'best bin' discussions lately have been exhausting (and a little silly), but this topic of high quality yet relatively affordable binoculars may be quite useful to people especially people who are new to the hobby or the forum itself (as Gwen points out).

 

[A2GG]

Only "inexpensive" alpha bin I've ever owned was the SE porro. I miss the sharpness. I'm using the Swaro CL now. It's not considered an alpha, but it's still a real nice compact package with very good optics IMO.

 

[looksharp65]

For me, there is no such thing as alpha binoculars!
Granted, when boosted my FL and my EII are the sharpest with the Meostar getting close and the Fury and the Meopro clearly lagging behind.

Each has its unique set of assets and shortcomings. Judging from the beautiful view alone, I'd easily place the E II above the FL. This would disqualify the FL from being an alpha, or what did I miss? The FL is decidedly more useful, though.
It's like comparing a Volkswagen Passat to a vintage Jaguar.

The Fury and the Meopro have the most natural colour representation, leaving the Meostar and the FL in the dust. Since the twins are much more usable with spectacles and in the winter, their usability leaves the E II in the dust. So the E II is not an alpha, right?

I say it again: I don't believe in the "alpha" concept since I can't agree with the common and undisputed opinion that the FL is an alpha binocular. For me it is a high quality product with tons of usability, but as a whole it's not radically better than any of the other binoculars I own.
When I tried the Zeiss HT it made me rabid it wasn't better at that price. It should at least match the EDG II, but for me it clearly didn't.

The one-dimensional "alpha" concept is dead and the stinking body should be buried ASAP.

//L

 

[FrankD]

Oh My God. Do we really need to discuss this AGAIN!! I visit this section occasionally to find out whats new in the world of optics. All I seem to see is 'Which is the best Alpha', 'What are best? roof or porro?' and 'Which is the best non-apha'. Boring, boring, yawn....

Jason,

If you read my original post you will see that I am not interested in "the best". In that I agree with you. It has been beaten to death. What I am interested in is excellent optical performance without the price tag.

 

[A2GG]

For me, there is no such thing as alpha binoculars!




//L

Great post IMO. It got me thinking how relative the term alpha is and the importance of usability. If someone is pleased with the optics of a bin and especially the handling/fit and ease of use in the field then it's an "alpha" to him or her no matter the cost or brand name.

 

[NDhunter]

For me, there is no such thing as alpha binoculars!
Granted, when boosted my FL and my EII are the sharpest with the Meostar getting close and the Fury and the Meopro clearly lagging behind.

Each has its unique set of assets and shortcomings. Judging from the beautiful view alone, I'd easily place the E II above the FL. This would disqualify the FL from being an alpha, or what did I miss? The FL is decidedly more useful, though.
It's like comparing a Volkswagen Passat to a vintage Jaguar.

The Fury and the Meopro have the most natural colour representation, leaving the Meostar and the FL in the dust. Since the twins are much more usable with spectacles and in the winter, their usability leaves the E II in the dust. So the E II is not an alpha, right?

I say it again: I don't believe in the "alpha" concept since I can't agree with the common and undisputed opinion that the FL is an alpha binocular. For me it is a high quality product with tons of usability, but as a whole it's not radically better than any of the other binoculars I own.
When I tried the Zeiss HT it made me rabid it wasn't better at that price. It should at least match the EDG II, but for me it clearly didn't.

The one-dimensional "alpha" concept is dead and the stinking body should be buried ASAP.

//L

Lars:

I suppose you did not check in, and find out first what is considered an
alpha binocular. That means the very best in binoculars.

The list as far as I can determine after several years of spending too much
time on this subject is, and these are in no particular order:

Zeiss, FL and HT, Leica UV, Swaro SLC-HD, EL-SV, Nikon EDG, and SE.

This list does change and update as new models are introduced, and it
seems Frank is trying to recognize the models that are closest to the
best.

It is just that simple. You can make nominations to the next best tier, but
the top list does not change much. Don't worry be happy !

Jerry

 

[paul2013]

The closest I've seen is the Bushnell custom compact 7x26. It's as good or better than compacts by the big three European makers (it's also bigger and heavier, but still a "compact" compared to full-sized). My only gripe is that it's not waterproof.

I'm close to pulling the trigger on a pair of Zeiss Terra HD (8x42), and wondering how close to $2k level optics those might be. Are there any updates? Do the QC issues seem to have been sorted?

 

[Stet]

Although it only currently comes in the 10x configuration and is at the $1000 marker also, the Meopta Meostar HD is alpha view all the way! Worth every penny IMHO! On the porro side the Nikon EII's are also alpha view and seem to be readily available on the auction site lately. Still like the SE they are also up in price. Supply and demand. If it wasn't for the flexing bridge the Swift Audubon 820's are also close to alpha view for little money. Would like to try the newer models that supposedly have a metal bridge and though I never tried the ED version I would have to speculate from the great view of the original model that these have an alpha view.

 

[A2GG]

Was there a time when the term "alpha binocular/brand" was more definitive?
Is the term now more relative since very high quality bins are now being produced at relatively affordable prices? I'd like to hear from the people with lots of years experience of various models...since I'm pretty much a newbie still.

 

[A2GG]

I hope I'm not changing the subject and/or flow of the thread with my last post.
I apologize if It does distract in some way from the main topic.

 

[NDhunter]

The closest I've seen is the Bushnell custom compact 7x26. It's as good or better than compacts by the big three European makers (it's also bigger and heavier, but still a "compact" compared to full-sized). My only gripe is that it's not waterproof.

I'm close to pulling the trigger on a pair of Zeiss Terra HD (8x42), and wondering how close to $2k level optics those might be. Are there any updates? Do the QC issues seem to have been sorted?

Paul:

The new Zeiss Terra is a very nice binocular, and I find it to be a great
choice in its price range. I have the 8x42, and have reported on it. I just
came in from a walk with my Zeiss Terra, and I really like this binocular.

I am not sure about the QC issues, those will be worked out as time goes on.

I am not shy with my opinion, but I am thinking Zeiss will, and I do know Nikon
does have a good handle on manufacturing in China. I have not heard of a
mention of any Nikons having defects out the door. They control things
and that does lend to confidence.

As far as being compared to the Alphas, the Terra would be a couple of steps
below.

Jerry

 

[ceasar]

If half the price of a Nikon EDG, Zeiss Victory T* HT, Leica Ultravid or Swarovsky Swarovision is an acceptable dividing line in making a recommendation then I think that the Nikon LX L/HG Ls which used to be Nikon's Alpha series should be seriously considered. After Nikon came out with the EDG series as their top of the line binocular they were renamed "Premier" but nothing changed other than that. These would be the "Closet thing to an Alpha..." out there now. In fact there are 3 binoculars to chose from in the normal spectrum.

If you want to make the price dividing line too much less than this (say below the $800.00 neighborhood) I don't see anything being accomplished here.

You get what you pay for.

Bob

 

[[email protected]]

Was there a time when the term "alpha binocular/brand" was more definitive?
Is the term now more relative since very high quality bins are now being produced at relatively affordable prices? I'd like to hear from the people with lots of years experience of various models...since I'm pretty much a newbie still.

"I'd like to hear from the people with lots of years experience of various models "

That would be me.

Hmmmm. The alphas are the top roofs. As NDhunter says Zeiss, FL and HT, Leica UV, Swaro SLC-HD, EL-SV, Nikon EDG.

The only thing that is going to compete with them for 1/2 price is the top porro's and I think they are losing ground because the manufacturers are not updating the porros like the roofs because they don't sell as well. For birding the only ones that come close to the alpha's in my opinion are the SE ,EII and the Habicht. These are probably the three best porro's in the world for birding and as I have been repeating in my thread I really think the SV 8x32 has finally beat the porro's even in optics. Unless somebody does a porro with ED glass and all the improvements that have benefited the alpha roofs the roofs will continue to get better and better and the porro's will stagnate. Still for under $1K the porro's are the best value for really top optics. You have to spend $2K in a roof to get the same view as a $1K porro. But I think if you really want the best you have to spend the $2K and get the SV. Sorry, budget birders I know that hurts. HaHa!

 

[catmouse]

For me, there is no such thing as alpha binoculars!
Granted, when boosted my FL and my EII are the sharpest with the Meostar getting close and the Fury and the Meopro clearly lagging behind.

Each has its unique set of assets and shortcomings. Judging from the beautiful view alone, I'd easily place the E II above the FL. This would disqualify the FL from being an alpha, or what did I miss? The FL is decidedly more useful, though.
It's like comparing a Volkswagen Passat to a vintage Jaguar.

The Fury and the Meopro have the most natural colour representation, leaving the Meostar and the FL in the dust. Since the twins are much more usable with spectacles and in the winter, their usability leaves the E II in the dust. So the E II is not an alpha, right?

I say it again: I don't believe in the "alpha" concept since I can't agree with the common and undisputed opinion that the FL is an alpha binocular. For me it is a high quality product with tons of usability, but as a whole it's not radically better than any of the other binoculars I own.
When I tried the Zeiss HT it made me rabid it wasn't better at that price. It should at least match the EDG II, but for me it clearly didn't.

The one-dimensional "alpha" concept is dead and the stinking body should be buried ASAP.

//L

I agree about the Alphas they are not what they seem to be and over hyped and overpriced, built good yes but not perfect though they should be at thier prices. My Kowa Genesis 8x33 is better than the Zeiss FL 8x32 but it too is considered alpha class costing $1,160 new see my other post on the focuser issue. the motto is true try before you buy. You may be surprised to find a mid priced binocular better than an alpha in many other aspects.

 

[catmouse]

So, what is the closest binocular, in terms of optical performance, that provides an "Alpha" view without having to pay Alpha prices?

Three that immediately come to mind are the Nikon SE, Swaro Habichts and Zeiss Conquest HD. Great bins all but $1000 is still pretty steep in this day and time for most folks that aren't diehard optics afficianados. Further, I have a hard time swallowing $700 new for an 8x32 SE when they were only selling for $500 a few years ago.

What then is alpha performance at less than half the alpha price?

Here are some good mid priced binoculars,:Fujinon 6x30 porro rubber armoured around $200-$250 Great clear wide field views though individual focus, Vortex Viper HD binoculars around $599 or less 8x32, 8x42, 10x42, Kowa BD 8x32 , 10x32. These binoculars have alpha views with out the high price and built well too. Vortex has the best warranty than any binocular maker.

 

[jgraider]

I've seen most of the very top shelf stuff and believe them to be grossly overpriced and a poor value. IMHO, I'll nominate the Leupold Gold Ring HD as being very, very near the alpha level at a fraction of the cost. That includes build quality as well as glass.

 

[A2GG]

I agree the top models like FL , UV, SV (ones considered alpha that I've handled in store) feel extremely well built and resolution is excellent.

What about Viper HD (fraction of the cost)...seems well built, great image, light and has astonishing 3ft focus; close enough in quality to the alpha models?

Totally beat ... It's bed time.