Crossbills of south-east Scotland (10 Viewers)

[Birdspotter]

Okay here it is my first spectogram, the first of many I hope.

I have refrained from putting a name on this at this time, because not only am I very new to this game, thus any naming would just be a guess at this point in time, but also I have no decent refrence material, except "The Sound Approach" that is.

What I will say however is that this bird was a male in-amongst a group of 40+ Crossbill's perched in the tree's, this (what I presume flight call, even though it was perched) was taken amongst the backdrop of a singing male in the background.

I will try and get the soundfile on soon.

 

[Ceejay2000]

More than two

This seems to have turned into a two-man thread.

Hi Sandy,
Well it appears there are 39 views so far, they cannot only be you and Lindsay !!!
(his Blog did take some finding though}
Keep this going please.
Regards C

 

[Acanthis]

Okay here it is my first spectogram, the first of many I hope.

I have refrained from putting a name on this at this time, because not only am I very new to this game, thus any naming would just be a guess at this point in time, but also I have no decent refrence material, except "The Sound Approach" that is.

What I will say however is that this bird was a male in-amongst a group of 40+ Crossbill's perched in the tree's, this (what I presume flight call, even though it was perched) was taken amongst the backdrop of a singing male in the background.

I will try and get the soundfile on soon.

Compare them with my Parakeet fc sonogram.

I'm looking with envy at all the finer details. Thats the difference between your Sennheiser and my cheapo monacor. Great stuff!! :t:

 

[Acanthis]

This seems to have turned into a two-man thread.

Hi Sandy,
Well it appears there are 39 views so far, they cannot only be you and Lindsay !!!
(his Blog did take some finding though}
Keep this going please.
Regards C

Hi Charles,
No point in asking if you got up to Monynut. Still snowy this side of the Lammermuirs, how's it down in the Borders?

 

[Capercaillie71]

Okay here it is my first spectogram, the first of many I hope.

Yes, that's a nice clear Parakeet flight call (they don't just give them in flight).

You could try altering the vertical and horizontal scales to get a clearer view of the call (use the magnifying glass symbols in the Raven toolbar). I usually set the vertical scale so that it reaches its maximum at 7.5kHz and then adjust the horizontal until I can see the shape of the call clearly.

 

[Birdspotter]

Yes, that's a nice clear Parakeet flight call (they don't just give them in flight).

You could try altering the vertical and horizontal scales to get a clearer view of the call (use the magnifying glass symbols in the Raven toolbar). I usually set the vertical scale so that it reaches its maximum at 7.5kHz and then adjust the horizontal until I can see the shape of the call clearly.

Aha, so that's how you do it!
I did try but gave up and just posted the sonagram as it was.
I am now working out how to change the sound file from WAV to MP3, so that I can post that also.
Cheers for the help and starting another thread on this forum that got me interested in the first place:t:

 

[Ceejay2000]

Hi Sandy

You are right, still to icy to attempt the hills, and the road at Soutra regularly blocked !! Snow caught most people out yesterday (Mon) not forecast.

Regards Charles

 

[griffin]

I only recently discovered your blog through a friend. I was just getting into it when it disappeared and I thought maybe you'd pulled the plug.
I see from your post that you reckon it was personal rather than the work of some random moron. If you find out who it was let me know so I can get medieval on their a*ses. :-O

No not me who pulled it, but defintely someone with a grudge.........

 

[Birdspotter]

Here's another sonagram from Harperigg, I still have to post the sound file's from the previous posted sonagram and this one.

 

[Capercaillie71]

Here's another sonagram from Harperigg, I still have to post the sound file's from the previous posted sonagram and this one.

I think you might have to stretch that one out a bit horizontally to see the shapes of the calls better.

 

[griffin]

Here's another sonagram from Harperigg, I still have to post the sound file's from the previous posted sonagram and this one.

look like they may be Fc4's

 

[Acanthis]

Here's a puzzle.

I've recorded the odd flock member with a thin straight up and down flight call sonogram so initially I thought they must be Fc2s. I managed to record a crossbill pair, first Fcs then excitement calls near Beinn Eighe (I know, just a wee bit outside S.E. Scotland) last june.

The Ecs look and sound similar to EcAs, with a downward inflection and a bit longer than S.A.s "towers of arched bands". However I don't think the Fcs look much like either Fc1s or 2s. I have S.A.s Wandering and British, and the Beinn Eighe birds open together with Raven as I write this and no matter how I stretch the axes I can't relate them to either. The recording is fairly poor so it's probably missing some important finer details.

To my ears though they sound more like Wandering.

For now I'll call them EcAs.

 

[G Anderson]

Call me a crazy but aren,t Crossbills pretty much 'clines'. Check out the variations in Chaffinch, just across the UK. And also the mad scaremongering cover on yesterdays 'Times'.

 

[Acanthis]

Call me a crazy but aren,t Crossbills pretty much 'clines'. Check out the variations in Chaffinch, just across the UK. And also the mad scaremongering cover on yesterdays 'Times'.

They might be, who knows. I haven't heard of or read any scientific paper proving for a fact the existence of Common Crossbill clines. If you have please post the references or send me the pdfs, cos I wouldn't mind a look at them. It would be good to know where exactly 'my' birds originate. I mean is there just as an example a 1B Parakeet Crossbill homeland? Which conifer species or combination of species does it prefer? Where is its optimum range and why?

 

[Acanthis]

Got some spare time but the weather's still rubbish and I've got to work this afternoon. So no crossbilling today. :-C

Instead I'll post some recordings.

1) 4E Glip Common Crossbill single excitement call (faint) plus flight calls.

2) A flock of 20+ Common Crossbills creating a cacophony of calls.

 

[Acanthis]

This one's a hen crossbill annoyed by me disturbing her feeding. I've posted it more to show the extraordinary structure of the nearby Coal Tits alarms.

 

[Capercaillie71]

2) A flock of 20+ Common Crossbills creating a cacophony of calls.

I like your 'mess of crossbills' recording. Do you think these are 1A British types? The Excitement and Flight call sonogram shapes certainly look a good match, although listening to the recordings they seem to me to sound a bit more like the Sound Approach Parakeet recordings.

 

[Acanthis]

Hi Caper,

The flight calls are the same or similar type to those Linz dealt with earlier this thread. If you try the RSPB classification system they would be somewhere along the lines of either Fc4 or Fc3.
They sound 'Glippy' but slightly higher pitched. In Fc4 Glips most of the action is happening at around 2-4 kHz and in these 3-5kHz. In both the final element gives the calls their somewhat disyllabic quality though Glip finishes high while the Armet birds start high.
The SAs 'classic' Brit Fc has a different structure with a pretty low energy downward element and aside from the initial 'stutter' due to the "windmill" sounds 'cleaner' overall.

My God, I almost make it sound like I know what I'm talking about! LOL :-O

It's impossible to prove that the same kind of bird was giving both the Fcs and Ecs in that flock unfortunately. The Ecs do compare well by ear to the Sound Apps Fc1 Brits and also look similar. It was quite windy that day and I may have lost the finer details as a result.

Realistically, the best I can say is that the birds making the Ecs were possibly type EcA and the type giving the Fcs is debatable. Not very decisive or satisfying but all part of the fun.

Did you notice the abrupt, high-pitched calls in amongst them, starting with a slight upward hint at around 6kHz dropping rapidly to 2kHz. I'm not sure if they were Fcs or some call with an unknown function. I'm tempted to think they were from an Fc2 (Wandering?) variation of /\ . What do you reckon?

 

[Capercaillie71]

I still think the flight calls in your 'mess' recording sound more like the British Fc1 than the Glip Fc4 on the sound approach recordings. But then I'm no expert! And that assumes that the sound approach recordings are truly representative of each type. Not to mention what Linz said earlier about whether you classify calls by sound or by sonogram or a bit of both.

The separate element at the end of the flight calls is very faint, and not apparent at all on some. In some, the separate element may even be the end of an overlapping flight call from a different bird.

I wonder how likely it is that in a mixed flock of crossbill types, one type would give exclusively excitement calls while the other gave exclusively flight calls?

As for the 6kHz calls, who knows?

Aren't crossbills fun?!

 

[Acanthis]

I wonder how likely it is that in a mixed flock of crossbill types, one type would give exclusively excitement calls while the other gave exclusively flight calls?

I think it's unlikely but it would be nice to have absolute proof. Lindsay's work ringing, measuring, and recording calls must be most satisfying in that regard.
If there are any ringers in the Lothians and Borders ringing crossbills and would like an assistant to tape-record the calls please get in touch.

Aren't crossbills fun?!

Tantalising and tormenting in equal measures!