Dipper ssp (2 Viewers)

[tom tams]

A Black-bellied Dipper (Cinclus cinclus cinclus) was reported at Horton Burn, Cramlington, Northumberland yesterday. I spent all morning at this site with no luck until about midday when I thought I had located the bird, I took a few images before my battery died. On returning from the car a Dipper was still present and I managed more images. I was surprised what this bird looked like in different lighting conditions. I attach the first images I took for any thoughts. A full set can be found on my Flickr account Tom Tams

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

Looks good for BBD

 

[Bewick]

Great photos.

 

[gerald762]

Wikipedia doesn´t list Black bellied dipper. Does it have another name, or what is it´s scientific name?
Thanks

 

[Sangahyando]

Wikipedia doesn´t list Black bellied dipper. Does it have another name, or what is it´s scientific name?
Thanks

Cinclus cinclus cinclus, the Scandinavian subspecies.

 

[gerald762]

Cinclus cinclus cinclus, the Scandinavian subspecies.

The same as this one, in SE Sweden?

 

[dantheman]

The same as this one, in SE Sweden?

Yep.

Dipper

This fascinating river bird has an extraordinary aquatic lifestyle. Dipper is the only songbird in Britain that feeds underwater and it has developed unique adaptations for this unusual way of life.

www.birdguides.com

Have to admit I was slightly surprised that there are 'about' 13 subspecies of White-throated Dipper recognised.

 

[gerald762]

I definitely did not know. I had assumed mine was the same as an ordinary, British, dipper.
Never too late to learn!!

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Another photo of the same bird at Cramlington.

It's arousing some controversy locally, with some people saying that the cool dark brown feathering at the margin between the belly and the white bib could be a problem in it being allocated to C c cinclus. Several are even describing that brown as 'chestnut', but in all my time, 'chestnut' has been a warm reddish mid brown, and not the cool Burnt Sienna hue of this bird's feathering.

I have a copy of Birds of the Western Palearctic (Online version) and in its illustrations for the subspecies it says that cinclus has a brown-black border to the white bib, which to my eye, matches my photos of this bird, and the Concise text states 'Nominate cinclus from northern Europe has upperparts similar to gularis, but breast and belly completely blackish-brown; some rufous-brown tinge often visible along border with white chest, but not as much as in gularis.', reinforcing that view.

But still the doubters doubt.

 

[delia todd]

Wikipedia doesn´t list Black bellied dipper. Does it have another name, or what is it´s scientific name?
Thanks

Black-bellied dipper is an alternative name for White-throated Dipper: White-throated Dipper - BirdForum Opus

 

[seawatcher]

Black-bellied dipper is an alternative name for White-throated Dipper: White-throated Dipper - BirdForum Opus

Yes, Black-bellied Dipper is a subspecies of White-throated Dipper. Names are not always logical.....
SW

 

[01101001]

same guy labeled my caspian gull photos on birdguides as a common gull!

Caspian Gull by Darrell Prest

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I'm relatively new to gulls, but why Caspian?

 

[Butty]

'White-throated dipper' is a new name for what most Brits and Irish grew up just calling 'dipper' C. cinclus, ie the whole species. The name 'black-bellied dipper' has only ever been established among English-speakers as a name for the black-bellied forms of the species, not for the species as a whole. Thus 'black-bellied dipper' is not an alternative name for white-throated dipper, and that statement should be removed from Opus.
EDIT - And in a trice it's been changed to: 'Includes: Black-bellied Dipper' 👍🏻

 

[Prestdj]

I'm relatively new to gulls, but why Caspian?

dark eye,grey tongue on p5,thin bill,markings around neck

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Black-bellied dipper is an alternative name for White-throated Dipper: White-throated Dipper - BirdForum Opus

Not quite, Delia.
In the same way that the old Monty Python sketch told us that 'all mackerel are fish, but all fish are not mackerel', all black-bellied dippers are white-throated dippers, but not all white-throated dippers are black-bellied dippers.

Dippers are common in Northumberland, but our dippers are the local subspecies, with a lot of chestnut between the white bib and the black lower belly. This dipper, if confirmed to be the black-bellied subspecies will be only the 4th record for Northumberland, hence the interest.

 

[01101001]

dark eye,grey tongue on p5,thin bill,markings around neck

I can see some paleness in the iris at maximum zoom, the bill is quite thin indeed but not very long (?), and some Common Gulls seem to show markings around the neck as well and have a full P5 band too. But don't take my word for it.

EDIT: It's just that my mental image of Caspian Gull doesn't fit, though I have yet to identify a pure Caspian Gull myself (so it's not on my life list).

For the sake of comparison, this should be the same individual?

Caspian Gull by Darrell Prest

Visit our new-look Galleries to view and search images of thousands of bird species, and join our worldwide community of bird photographers

www.birdguides.com

 

[Prestdj]

I can see some paleness in the iris at maximum zoom, the bill is quite thin indeed but not very long (?), and some Common Gulls seem to show markings around the neck as well and have a full P5 band too. But don't take my word for it.

EDIT: It's just that my mental image of Caspian Gull doesn't fit, though I have yet to identify a pure Caspian Gull myself (so it's not on my life list).

For the sake of comparison, this should be the same individual?

Caspian Gull by Darrell Prest

Visit our new-look Galleries to view and search images of thousands of bird species, and join our worldwide community of bird photographers

www.birdguides.com

many caspian gulls dont fit the normal look but always distinctive a weak thin bill pale underwing and primary tongues.............but back to the black bellied dipper

 

[Barred Wobbler]

many caspian gulls dont fit the normal look but always distinctive a weak thin bill pale underwing and primary tongues.............but back to the black bellied dipper

Well said. What about the dipper?

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Video here;

 

[Prestdj]

i would go black bellied dipper