Dreadful customer service (1 Viewer)

[SteveTS]

Thanks, perterra. Nikon Store UK don't list any, they are all on the discontinued list.

Plenty of other choices for hunters though, not that we'd ever see binoculars from Schmidt & Bender, or Nickel AG !

 

[ronh]

From this forum and my own experiences with alpha binoculars, I can't tell that one brand is any more likely to require service than another. More importantly, I'm not convinced that the likelyhood of failure in any alpha is great enough that the warranty and service issue should be a strong factor in one's choice. I have happily bought used Leicas knowing they carried no warranty whatsoever. One of four required a fix that I had to pay a modest fee for, and which Leica USA carried out promptly and courteously. I would do it again. To me, it's a risk worth taking, vs the certain defeat of buying a glass that is not the most interesting, out of fear of issues.

Ron

 

[CloseFocus]

Warranty is a marketing tool, if you charge enough you can offer any kind of warranty you want to.

I've always suspected that the extra one to two hundred dollars Swarovski charges for their binoculars in this country is essentially an extended warranty that people have no choice but to pay. Jan has said in previous posts that in Europe, Leicas are more expensive, and Oetzi has pointed out that all brands there are required to have the same 10 year warranty. I wonder if companies in Europe are allowed to offer bonuses to stores and sales people as an incentive to push their brands, like they are here?

 

[jan van daalen]

I've always suspected that the extra one to two hundred dollars Swarovski charges for their binoculars in this country is essentially an extended warranty that people have no choice but to pay. Jan has said in previous posts that in Europe, Leicas are more expensive, and Oetzi has pointed out that all brands there are required to have the same 10 year warranty. I wonder if companies in Europe are allowed to offer bonuses to stores and sales people as an incentive to push their brands, like they are here?

Well, they haven't offer me non.
It is usual in the camera business, like Perterra posted. That's common.
Personally I would like to stay independend. Sell the customer what he needs not what my biggest bonus will be. I want my business to stay in a 100 years and not for the short run.

What bothered me is the way the USA does business. What is the extra value a shop as cabelas (and probably others) brings to the customer except getting his hand in the wallet, if they can't/won't give a objective advice?

I'm getting to understand the:"he is a dealer" mantra, with experiences like these:C:C:C.

 

[perterra]

Well, they haven't offer me non.
It is usual in the camera business, like Perterra posted. That's common.
Personally I would like to stay independend. Sell the customer what he needs not what my biggest bonus will be. I want my business to stay in a 100 years and not for the short run.

What bothered me is the way the USA does business. What is the extra value a shop as cabelas (and probably others) brings to the customer except getting his hand in the wallet, if they can't/won't give a objective advice?

I'm getting to understand the:"he is a dealer" mantra, with experiences like these:C:C:C.

Small brick and mortar independants are the best way to get good service. You may pay more for a product, but in most cases they are not just a store but a consultant also. In my experience with non chain stores they can get things pushed thru as a good will repair when larger big box stores let you down.

But smaller stores are at a huge disadvantage in the US. They dont have the buying power that places like bass pro or cabelas have, places where the contracts signed with suppliers state they can return product for any reason or no reason and get full credit. There is no risk to the big store, they load the risk on the mfg'r. You as a small shop carry your own risk, in many (most probably) cases if your product doesnt sell you are stuck with it.

I agree with you about the way the US does business. It's a stack'm deep and sell'm cheap walmart mentality and it's basically sunk our middle class. We are a nation full of investors looking for a quick buck with no risk. A I got mine, you get yours mind set.

The only value added given by a big box store like a cabelas, home depot or walmart is buy it cheap, 50,000 items under one roof and if you dont like it, bring it back.

 

[ceasar]

Jan, that's not the way retail works in this country. Why do you think Vortex and Swarovski are placed in the same case? I think that Cabelas has made a decision that they will push the Swaro and Vortex line, probably because they have agreements with those companies that are more profitable for Cabelas. The salesmen are told which lines to push. He even hesitated when he said Vortex was second best, but I'm sure that's what he was told to say at some employee meeting, and I think he values his job more than seeing that his buyers choose the right binoculars for themselves. I don't blame Leica or Zeiss for the salesman's ignorance (i.e. lying), I blame them for sticking with a retailer that treats them like dirt.

This is essentially correct.

The decision to push Swarovski, a large manufacturer of very expensive sporting goods, in Cabelas' stores has to be made at the top level in Cabelas headquarters between the Cabelas buyer and the Swarovski rep.

No point in mincing words here; this is a business decision and there has to be some consideration passing back and forth between Swarovski and Cabelas to get this prominence in the display locations and the pro-active cooperation of the sales staff working there. There is also a substantial inventory cost burden that Cabelas has to bear so the product has to sell.

This setting up of displays is commonly found in super markets but you will not find the employees there actively pushing the products as they seem to be doing in Cabelas.


Bob

 

[jgraider]

Jgraider, I'm just curious why you are so fixated on warranties. Have you had a lot of problems with Swarovskis?

I personally have not, but two of my hunters did, by their own negligence, ruin two pair of EL's. A phone call was placed to Swaro USA customer service, followed by a letter, and Swaro fixed them like new, zero charge. I'm not only fixated, as you say, on warranties, I'm also very fixated on customer service, and a simple google search of various optics forums will give you more piss poor reports of Leica USA CS than just about anybody. Leica has been close to bankruptcy once.

Also, the ridiculous excuse that "Swaro charges more than Leica, therefore you're paying extra for the warranty" is nonsense. Amongst comparable models Swaro is no more expensive than Leica.

 

[jgraider]

This is essentially correct.

The decision to push Swarovski, a large manufacturer of very expensive sporting goods, in Cabelas' stores has to be made at the top level in Cabelas headquarters between the Cabelas buyer and the Swarovski rep.

No point in mincing words here; this is a business decision and there has to be some consideration passing back and forth between Swarovski and Cabelas to get this prominence in the display locations and the pro-active cooperation of the sales staff working there. There is also a substantial inventory cost burden that Cabelas has to bear so the product has to sell.

This setting up of displays is commonly found in super markets but you will not find the employees there actively pushing the products as they seem to be doing in Cabelas.


Bob

You're both just purely guessing as to why Swaro is supposedly pushing the Swaro/Vortex over Leica. I'm sure you've got no proof this is company policy....do you? Could this just be one guy, in one particular store? I kind of think it could be.

 

[dalat]

two of my hunters did, by their own negligence, ruin two pair of EL's. A phone call was placed to Swaro USA customer service, followed by a letter, and Swaro fixed them like new, zero charge.

Another example of what I personally do not like. I take good care of my binoculars, so I don't want to pay for fixing the negligence of others. This is in fact a compulsary insurance for dummies.

 

[perterra]

You're both just purely guessing as to why Swaro is supposedly pushing the Swaro/Vortex over Leica. I'm sure you've got no proof this is company policy....do you? Could this just be one guy, in one particular store? I kind of think it could be.

One guy making $9.50 an hour. Could be just his choice, I would be willing to bet a six pack there is a spiff on those brands.

 

[Kevin Conville]

Jan, that's not the way retail works in this country. Why do you think Vortex and Swarovski are placed in the same case? I think that Cabelas has made a decision that they will push the Swaro and Vortex line, probably because they have agreements with those companies that are more profitable for Cabelas. The salesmen are told which lines to push. He even hesitated when he said Vortex was second best, but I'm sure that's what he was told to say at some employee meeting, and I think he values his job more than seeing that his buyers choose the right binoculars for themselves. I don't blame Leica or Zeiss for the salesman's ignorance (i.e. lying), I blame them for sticking with a retailer that treats them like dirt.

I don't know exactly what's going on at Cabela's counter, but your train of thinking has the ring of truth about it. Cabela's is most likely less interested in getting the best bins for their customer's needs in their hands than meeting sales goals to fullfill brokered deals.

 

[ceasar]

You're both just purely guessing as to why Swaro is supposedly pushing the Swaro/Vortex over Leica. I'm sure you've got no proof this is company policy....do you? Could this just be one guy, in one particular store? I kind of think it could be.

Of course there is no proof. Why are you asking for it? And I never implied they were doing it at Leica's expense. I stated that it was a business decision, pure and simple. One hand washes the other.

It's speculation based on common sense.

Cabelas is very big business and it is still expanding. Binoculars like Swarovski and even Vortex are big cost items. I don't think any single store's department managers will get much leeway in what they can do. An efficient upper management will stay on top of things like this. When Cabelas decides to do something like sell certain binoculars at closeout prices or deep discounts they usually do it by mailing advertisement flyers. That is how I was able to buy my new in box Leica 7x42 Trinovid BN for $799.00 a number of years back at a Cabelas close out sale.

 

[Kevin Conville]

The guy at Cabelas, which is a world class store/retailer BTW, is probably making his case based on product warranties. If that's the case he's correct, along with leupold. I've stated before that of the 120 or so hunters I've had in camp over the past 12 years, probably 70% of them show up with Swaro something, 20% Zeiss, 5% Leica, 5% something else. Leica, as a company, is totally clueless how to market, warrant, and service their products here in the USA. People have caught on to this and have chosen to spend their $$$ on something else, as have I. Life's too short to deal with idiots.

Idiots? Idiots. Really? Classy.

Your stats are interesting. Do they sell Swarovskis at the Range Rover dealers?
Am I wrong in imagining well decked out "dudes" in MBs and RRs with $10,000 custom rifles ready to be driven out to shoot some exotic animal while it's out grazing amongst the ranch's cattle. You know, "sportsman"? Or do I have that all wrong? You'd give full disclosure, of course.

 

[jgraider]

Idiots? Idiots. Really? Classy.

Your stats are interesting. Do they sell Swarovskis at the Range Rover dealers?
Am I wrong in imagining well decked out "dudes" in MBs and RRs with $10,000 custom rifles ready to be driven out to shoot some exotic animal while it's out grazing amongst the ranch's cattle. You know, "sportsman"? Or do I have that all wrong? You'd give full disclosure, of course.

Uh, "wrong" is an understatement......ignorant, and/or idiotic statement would be more applicable.

I'm involved with guide and outfitter programs with Leupold, Swarovski, Zeiss, and Meopta. No Leica for a reason........I visited with Leica a couple of years ago and decided their business policies and philosophies and my own were miles apart. After visiting with Leica USA at this past January's DSC show in Dallas, I was assured that, in my mind, I once again made the correct choice. Leica Sport Optics USA, at least in the hunting segment, are idiots.

 

[jgraider]

Of course there is no proof. Why are you asking for it? And I never implied they were doing it at Leica's expense. I stated that it was a business decision, pure and simple. One hand washes the other.

It's speculation based on common sense.

But it is, still, purely speculation. Could be it was purely one man's (salesman's) opinion.

 

[Kevin Conville]

From one guided hunt ranch in Texas:

We have a No Kill, No Pay Policy...if you don't harvest the Exotic or Native game animal that you've booked, then we will refund you the trophy fee (minus guide or day-hunt fee) from your Hunt Package price.

Addax Antelope - $6900
Afghan Urial - $5500
African Porcupine - $1750
Texas Alligator - $3000
Aoudad Sheep - $3750
Arabian Oryx (Record) - $9950
Armenian Mouflon - $3250
Axis Deer $2750 to $3800
Barasingha Deer - $875 to $5900
Beisa Oryx - $6900
Blackbuck Antelope - $2500
Black Hawaiian - $1350 to $3500
Black Wildebeest - $9500
Blesbok - $5500
Blue Sheep - $25,000
Blue Wildebeest - $5900
Bongo - $29,500
Buffalo - Bison - $2750 to $4500
Catalina Goat - $1250
Cavie - $500
Corsican Ram - $795 to $3500
Dama Gazelle - $7950
Dybowski Sika Deer - $3500
Eld's Deer - $10500
Rocky Mountain Elk $1650+
Eland - $3950 to $6500
Emu - $895
European Mouflon - $2950
Fallow Deer (Record Hungarian) - $4500
Fallow Deer (European) - $2750
Four Horn Jacob Sheep - $2750
Fringe Eared Oryx - $6,500
Gaur Bull - Price on Request
Gemsbok - $5900
Grants Gazelle - $7900
Himalayan Tahr - $5900
Hog Dog Hunts - $990
Hybrid Ibex - $2450
Hog Deer - $5500
Kudu - $12,000
Kafue Lechwe - $5900
Markhor - $13900
Australian Merino Rams - $1050
Mouflon - $1450 to $2950
Mule Deer - $5500
Muntjac Deer - $3,500
Nile Lechwe - $11900
Nilgai - $3600
Nubian Ibex - $8500
Nyala - $10000
Ostrich - $1950
Painted Desert Ram - $1350 to $3500
Pere David's Deer - $5900
Persian Ibex - $4500
Pheasant Hunt Package - From $550
Pronghorn Antelope - $3500
Quail Hunt Package - From $550
Red Lechwe - $5900
Red Stag $2750 to $7500
Red Sheep - $3750
Rhea - $1350
Roan Antelope - $18,000
Rusa Deer - $8,500
Sable - $10000+
Sambar Deer - $11000
Scimitar Horned Oryx - $3500 to $5500
Sika Deer (Asiatic) - $1750
Silk Deer - $4500
Sitatunga - $7500
Springbok - $5500
Stumberg Sheep - $10500
Texas Dall Sheep - $1350 to $3500
Thomson's Gazelle - $6900
Transcaspian Urial - $17500
Turkey Hunt - $1350
Vaal Rhebok Hunt - $5500
Water Buffalo - $2850+
Waterbuck - $6900
Watusi - $2995
White Bearded Wildebeest - $5900
White Elk Hunt - $11900
White Red Stag Hunt - $5500
Whitetail Deer Hunt - $2000+
Wild Boar Hunt - $990
Yak - $3000
YO Ibex - $2450
Grants Zebra - $4500
Zebu - $2250


Axis Doe - $650
Blackbuck Doe - $350
Red Deer Hind - $500
Whitetail Doe - $450
Fallow Doe - $450
Sika Doe - $450

Gee, I'll bet it's real tough to "bag" one of these exotic farm creatures. Must require the very best equipment and lots of hardship and expertise. I'll bet you can't even get a martini 'till after 5.

 

[CloseFocus]

Also, the ridiculous excuse that "Swaro charges more than Leica, therefore you're paying extra for the warranty" is nonsense. Amongst comparable models Swaro is no more expensive than Leica.

Check Eagle Optics. The price difference between an Ultravid HD and comparable EL model ranges from $250 to $300.

 

[jgraider]

Check Eagle Optics. The price difference between an Ultravid HD and comparable EL model ranges from $250 to $300.

EL SV, or EL ? Leica has nothing to compete with the SV.

 

[jgraider]

Kevin, no high fences where I take hunters, all free range hunting, so your example is ridiculous and NA. I have no control over what everyone else does, or where they go, that's their business. Not my style.

 

[CloseFocus]

EL SV, or EL ? Leica has nothing to compete with the SV.

You got that backward. You must have lyxdeslia.