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Eagle for ID (2 Viewers)

"You can do a full wing foruma on this one!"

But given that it is in active primary moult how can you know which primaries you are looking at?, it isn't possible to isolate either p1 or p10 in the images presented. P7 could be missing on both wings?

I don't know of any suggestions that Indian Spotted ever lacks the pale wing covert versus darker flight feather contrast which is such a useful feature on many LSE (pomarina). Sumit's bird shows very dark coverts which appear concolorous with the flight feathers. I can't see any way of identifying this bird with certainty, GSE cannot be excluded.

Some of the pictures of reputed Indian Spotted Eagles:

http://www.delhibird.org/images/Ind...ttedEagle_1.jpg
http://www.delhibird.org/images/Ind...ttedEagle_5.jpg

look like dark Tawny Eagles to me!

Sheryl
 
"It would have to have been pulled out in a freak accident! Not checked whether the species moults descendantly or ascendantly.... but its unlikely to start at 7. The upper wing on the upper photo shows 9 primaries...all looking old. Its most likely dropped the innermost primary."

If you check any of the specialist literature on raptor identification you'll find that large raptors such as aquila eagles have a complex moult strategy involving a series of waves and suspensions. Very few large raptors are ever wearing just one generation of primaries after the juvenile feathers start to be replaced and moult waves frequently begin/resume in the centre of the tract.

Rather than having to have been pulled out in 'freak accident' the absence of p7 (and perhaps adjacent feathers) in this bird is totally consistent with the moult strategy of aquilas.

I can see nothing to exclude GSE here and plenty to support such an id.

Sheryl
 
I guess its a style thing... I'm looking to do all I can to help Sumit from a position of little knowledge in the area.

There should be enough visible on the primaries in terms of notches and emarginations to work out which promary is which. You could certainly tell which were worn. I'll have a crack after work.

There might be some mileage in the relative depth of the notches/emarginations.
 
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Any assessment of the primaries is going to be very difficult as the moult is apparently not symmetrical for some reason. Because of this one wing is always going to appear to have a different formula to the other.

On the top wing in the first image it could be argued that p1 and p2 are short or missing and this would leave p7 as obviously emarginate and significantly longer than p6. I'm relucatnt to assume that this is the case, especially as this can't be confirmed by reference to the lower wing.

If you have a problem with my style I'd recommend concentrating on the content instead.

Sheryl
 
sheryl said:
If you have a problem with my style I'd recommend concentrating on the content instead.

Sheryl
Click to expand...

Now then ladies, let's not let it slide into an argument.
I for one have thoroughly enjoyed reading this particular thread and it would be nice to think that two such obviously experienced women (that doesn't sound good, but you know what I meant) could show us argumentative males how to get along.
For what it's worth though, I agree with the i.d. of GSE, but with little field experience of the species I'm going purely off feel/jizz - and we all know how unreliable jizz-based identification is......
 
I have no intention of sliding into an agrument! It seems a pity that with such a fabulous picture that we can't get a concrete ID.

I quite like the sound of being an experienced Woman... how about you Sheryl!

If you read all the way back.. I thought it was a GSE too. It was in trying to prove that it was I found I couldn't. The bird does look uncannily like the putative Indian Spotted Eagle in the link above... that combination of GSE general feel, and short tail, but will a less "fingery" and massive appearance than a classic GSE...and the very dark uncontrasty underwing. There is a request for photos of any possible ISE on the link... perhaps that might be the best thing to do with it.

Some more pics ISE would be helpful... I really should be working just now!
 
I have limited experience of both species, but I am by no means an expert on the subject..to my eyes this looks like GSE, with the darker less contrasting underwing,also the head on GSE tends to appear darker than on LSE making the paler bill stand out more,like on this bird
 
Right then.. I got up close and personal with this eagle.

This is what I think I see, comments welcome. It has restarted its suspended moult at p2. P2 is short regrowing on one wing and missing on the other... and p1 is missing on both. pp2-7 should be strongly emarginated on GSE, 7th weakly so on LSE. PP 3-6 look old and worn to varying degrees on either wing. P10 appears to be missing on both wings... showing more obviously on the upper wing. That would make sense with the overlapping moult cycles and inside to out moult that Sheryl so helpfully pointed out ;)

The feather that should be p7 is too dark to make out the exact shape, but on both wings you can see enough to say its not strongly emarginated.

Another couple of things I noticed when I blew the pic up. There is a double comma at the carpal and the under-wing coverts are actually paler than the flight feathers.....again I'm not 100% sure of the age of this bird, but aren't they features that are usually used to point against GSE?

The pic is good enough to see a load of detail on the face, gape etc. perhaps there is something useful in there too!
 

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The bill is way too heavy for LSE... but there was something about large gape for ISE... will see if I can find any information. Does anyone have access to that IBIS paper that Harry flagged before I go and splash out $14 on it?
 

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Jane Turner said:
The bill is way too heavy for LSE... but there was something about large gape for ISE... will see if I can find any information.

The darker underwing coverts contrasting with paler flight feathers is a good indication of Spotted Eagle (usually the opposite in LSE)...usually!

Not sure at this stage if you are concentrating too much on the primary pattern.

I have seen many large Aquila's in Israel, Egypt (Suez) and Africa showing decent carpal comma's, including Spotted and Steppe (which this isn't) with double carpal comma's.

This just looks like a Spotted Eagle to me.


Great photograph.

John Barclay.
Click to expand...
 
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According to this link posted earlier:
http://www.bsaponline.org/litrev.html
"The gape of hastata extends well behind the eye, whereas that of clanga (and pomarina) does not".

On Sumit's photo, it goes to just below, but not behind, the eye, which suggests to me it is more likely to be clanga.

Michael
PS is anyone going to admit to ever having dropped a clanga over eagle ID? :king:
 
It is of course possible that I've got it all wrong and infact its missing P1 and P2... my defence as far as it goes is that I started numbering from the wing-point 4=5, which was the most relaible reference point I could find.
 
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