Egyptian falcons and Raptors (1 Viewer)

[Greg McKay]

I recently returned from Egypt where i took these photos of birds of prey. I believe some are Kites and some falocns but am not able to positively identify them. I know there are some raptor experts out there who will love the challenge of helping me. Thanks in advance.

 

[John Cantelo]

1 - Kestrel, 2 - Red-footed Falcon, 3 - Black Kite, 4 - Kestrel, 5 - 'Barn' Swallow and a Crag or Rock Martin - it looks too pale above to be Crag Martin so I'd favour the latter except that it doesn't seem to have a pale forehead and the paleness may be a photographic artefact or a result of very bright light.

John

 

[luke]

I wouldnt say No. 3 is a black kite, couldnt say what it is though...

 

[halftwo]

I think John's spot on with everything. I'd go for Rock rather than Crag too. The Swallow looks dark enough for Savignii Barn swallow - resident Nile Valley, but again reflected light could be making the unders darker than they really are.
The Black kite is as John says. I'd say adult - only real confusion species would be Marsh harrier female - which would show a pale buffy unstreaked crown, not this streaked greyish one.

 

[gerdwichers8]

third is a buzzard, not comprehended to be either vulpinusCommon or perhaps cirtensis Long-legged, but certainly buteo in the first taxon.

 

[CAU]

Agree, third is juvenile Common Buzzard.

 

[lostinjapan]

I am guessing that the martin is actually a Pale Crag Martin - Ptyaoprogne obsoleta, as it looks pretty small..but don't have references to hand.


As to the raptor..wouldn't it have a yellow bill if it was an 'aegyptius' Black Kite (now split into African Black Kite?)? I thought male Marsh Harrier due to the dark body, pale head and pale eye...but not so sure now.

Doesn't really look right for a Steppe Buzzard to me either.

Any other opinions.

Will have a proper look when I get home.

Sean

 

[CAU]

A male Marsh Harrier would have a bright yellow eye, longer and thinner legs and grey secondaries and retrices.

 

[John Cantelo]

I can quite see why others take the larger raptor to be a Buzzard, but, as much as anything, based on my gut reaction I still feel it's a Black Kite. It's rather more difficult to analyse why! I believe that the nominate form migrates through Egypt so the lack of a yellow bill isn't significant. I feel that the stance, head shape, colouration, etc fit Black Kite more than Buzzard, but it's exactly the sort of photo that reminds me how much easier identifying birds in the field can be than peering at an image on a computer screen!
John

 

[halftwo]

I can see what others mean too John; to me it looks rakish - long tail & wings, with wing tips to tail tip. Also iris colour... Plus Buzzard isn't common in Egypt. When I read CAU's comments (& he's been right on every thread I remember) I can see Buzzard as well as BK now.

 

[lou salomon]

it's a buzzard. don't know cirtensis LLB but this could well be a darkish 1cy vulpinus (steppe buzzard) which pass through egypt in big numbers.

 

[Jane Turner]

For what its worth - I thought it was a Black Kite, till I looked closely at the tail!

 

[jason stannage]

2cy buteo buteo vulpinus (steppe buzzard)

 

[njlarsen]

The kestrel in four had me wondering for a while. I cannot remember seeing them with pants this strong. Of course, I currently see American Kestrel where I live, and no longer European

cheers
Niels

 

[Greg McKay]

Thanks for your help everyone. The 3rd bird. There were plenty of them around, We played golf at Sharm El Shiek on the Red Sea and had never seen so many birds of prey in the one place. Must have been the green in all that desert. Back to the 3rd bird i would estimate that there would have been at least 10 different individuals of these birds that i saw, if this helps. I will post some other birds soon with another another picture of what I believe is the same raptor included its not a great shot but the profile of the bird may help.

 

[Jane Turner]

A flight shot of the raptor would be the most useful.

 

[heuglini]

3rd pic is not a kite...i'd rather go with the vulpinus common buzzard because from my personal experience on cirtensis long-legged this taxon shows a stronger bill, paler upperwing coverts and very thick legs and toes.
Additionally primaries seem to reach tail tip, not seen in long-legged complex.

cheers
Michele

 

[gerdwichers8]

If there where plenty around, than it should have been birds on migration. I just read that Greg spoke about 'recently'. Cirtensis Long Legged is only a rare breeder in Sinai so..
Steppe Buzzard then.

 

[lostinjapan]

A male Marsh Harrier would have a bright yellow eye, longer and thinner legs and grey secondaries and retrices.

Hey Cau

Yes I realize a Marsh Harrier would have a bright yellow eye. In fact I think I already said tha! Being brought up in East Anglia i have seen a fair few.

I just thought Marsh Harrier at first, as i saw a pale eye, dark body and pale head.

Once I got home I realized it wasn't...for the plumage reasons that you give CAU.

Steppe Buzzard is certainly a common migrant in Arabia in autumn, but scarcer in Egypt at that season. They tend to pass through in bigger numbers there in the spring.

Having said all that, they are definitely commoner than Long-legged there.

It just didn't look right for Steppe Buzzard to me, as it had a combination of pale head and all dark body, which I have never seen in that species..maybe the breast is pale? Can't really tell from the photo.

Of course 'nominate' Black Kite pass through Egypt in autumn, but wasn't sure how common they were. Anyway, the head looks too pale for that species, and then of course there is the tail..as Jane points out, that appears rounded.

The birds might just be resting there, or in the absence of trees, it might be a roosting spot..or as it is so green, may contain more prey items and of course fresh water.

Sean

 

[CAU]

Hey Cau

Yes I realize a Marsh Harrier would have a bright yellow eye. In fact I think I already said tha! Being brought up in East Anglia i have seen a fair few.

I just thought Marsh Harrier at first, as i saw a pale eye, dark body and pale head.

Once I got home I realized it wasn't...for the plumage reasons that you give CAU.

Hello Sean, what I meant was that Marsh Harriers usually have rather bright yellow eyes (at least older birds). In fact the bird reminded me too somewhat of a Marsh Harrier, and I looked up a few photos on the net before posting my reply.

It just didn't look right for Steppe Buzzard to me, as it had a combination of pale head and all dark body, which I have never seen in that species..maybe the breast is pale? Can't really tell from the photo.

Of course 'nominate' Black Kite pass through Egypt in autumn, but wasn't sure how common they were. Anyway, the head looks too pale for that species, and then of course there is the tail..as Jane points out, that appears rounded.

Juvenile Common Buzzards are really variable in their plumage, and I believe that the colour of the head falls well within the variation. I know that also 2nd autumn CBs may have pale eyes, but it is the pale streaked head that leads me to believe that the bird is a juvenile (I'm not 100% sure, and noted that Pelican Crossing suggested it to be a 2nd c.y.). I also don't think that the subterminal band at the end of the tail is too wide for a juvenile.

By the way, with "Common Buzzard" I mean the species Buteo buteo, but of course this bird looks like a vulpinus. Both subspecies (nominate and vulpinus) occur in Finland (or different hybrids between them), which is why I usually just refer to them as CB.

I think that the features that distinguish the bird from Black Kite are:
-the forked tail of a Black Kite should be well visible
-the bill is small and the eye is big compared to the size of the head
-the streaking on the head of an adult Black Kite is finer and more evenly distributed (juveniles have coarser streaking, a dark mask and dark eyes)

Here are a few pics for comparison:
http://www.birding.in/images/Birds/black_kite.jpg
http://ptactvojihlavska.webzdarma.cz/fotoaves/Milvus_migrans.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Milvus_migrans_govinda.jpg
http://www.vertdeterre.com/nature/img/oiseau/milan_noir.jpg
http://www.colinchurcher.co.uk/birdsofprey/slides/1362 Black Kite.jpg

Note the much heavier bill of Black Kite (and of course the forked tail). In the last two pictures it can also be seen that adult Black Kites may have rather pale heads.

I don't either think that the bird is a Long-legged Buzzard, as the bill is small and as the tailfeatehrs look very dark and seem also to lack any reddish tones.

When I read CAU's comments (& he's been right on every thread I remember) I can see Buzzard as well as BK now.

Thanks, but I have been wrong sometimes... You should rather look at my arguments for the id, and assess if they are correct or not. This time I unfortunately didn't provide any in my first post...