• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Elegant tern? (1 Viewer)

condor1992

Well-known member
Spain
Currently I'm having a fight with an ebird moderator who is witholding my observation from ebird on the grounds that he isn't sure that the tern is. What is that tern? It was sitting next to the confirmed elegant tern I posted earlier in the gallery
DSC00915.JPG
 
I can't rule anything out. I'm not that good with terns. A look on the internet, however, suggested to me that this was an elegant. Plus the area is in close proximity to a known colony of elegants at the Albufera de Valencia
 
I can't rule anything out. I'm not that good with terns. A look on the internet, however, suggested to me that this was an elegant. Plus the area is in close proximity to a known colony of elegants at the Albufera de Valencia
To be fair, 200km is a good stretch but it's more likely to be Elegant than any other yellow-billed tern. Pinet is well watched though, so hopefully it will be picked up again.
 
The balance of probability is that it is one of the two Elegent Terns which have been frequenting El Pinet. However drawing a conclusive ID from the posted image is another thing entirely.
 
Last edited:
The point others are making is that it may well be an Elegant Tern, given the location, but with the known existence of hybrids it is not possible to exclude something else from this photo. The ebird reviewer presumably can not agree that from this one image an ID can be certain.
 
The point others are making is that it may well be an Elegant Tern, given the location, but with the known existence of hybrids it is not possible to exclude something else from this photo. The ebird reviewer presumably can not agree that from this one image an ID can be certain.
I think, in addition, Lesser Crested is an annual vagrant to Spain as birds from Libya pass through the straits on migration, so hardly a stretch to imagine that this 'could' be one, although doubtless it will be an elegant tern. Bird records aren't generally kept on the balance of probability. The image is indistinct and cant be identified but if you saw elegant terns at a place where there were two elegant terns then that's fair enough, just be happy with that.
 
Agreed.
I think, in addition, Lesser Crested is an annual vagrant to Spain as birds from Libya pass through the straits on migration, so hardly a stretch to imagine that this 'could' be one, although doubtless it will be an elegant tern. Bird records aren't generally kept on the balance of probability. The image is indistinct and cant be identified but if you saw elegant terns at a place where there were two elegant terns then that's fair enough, just be happy with that.
Agreed. I'm just happy I saw it, and won't let anyone from ebird with a problem with what I saw ruin the fact that this was an absolutely amazing day for me
 
won't let anyone from ebird with a problem with what I saw ruin the fact that this was an absolutely amazing day for me
Peculiar attitude. There's no reason to think that the reviewer was doing any such thing. See the comments above for an explanation of what the reviewer was actually doing - viz. their job.
 
condor1992 said:


won't let anyone from ebird with a problem with what I saw ruin the fact that this was an absolutely amazing day for me
Peculiar attitude. There's no reason to think that the reviewer was doing any such thing. See the comments above for an explanation of what the reviewer was actually doing - viz. their job.
I am glad you had an amazing day and I think this is a fine attitude. You should not let the ebird reviewer ruin your enjoyment of the day. But, you should also recognize that the photo you have does leave room for doubt - see all the comments above - and don't get too upset at the reviewer.
 
And hear in lies the joy (and frustration) of listing - everyone places the bar at a slightly different level
 
And everyone’s list is personal; unless you are doing something more with the data, it does not matter. You saw two terns with characteristics of Elegant terns, where there are known to be two present. No change to scientific data. If you were to go further, eg to state that because a third individual was seen by someone else at the same time then the population is larger, or that detailed features seen say something about hybridisation, then the details need to be much more watertight.
 
From this and the other thread I think I've understood that you've definitely seen one Elegant Tern, you've seen another candidate bird but by your own assessment you're 'not that good with terns' yet you're 'having a fight with an ebird reviewer'. I don't always agree with Butty but I do on this one, the ebird reviewer doesn't seem to be being unreasonable.
 
From this and the other thread I think I've understood that you've definitely seen one Elegant Tern, you've seen another candidate bird but by your own assessment you're 'not that good with terns' yet you're 'having a fight with an ebird reviewer'. I don't always agree with Butty but I do on this one, the ebird reviewer doesn't seem to be being unreasonable.
It is likeliest to be an elegant tern. Given reports of two in the area, and given that a lesser crested tern is very rare in the region, I think I have a strong case for the identity of the bird.

A bit of context. Prior to this argument breaking out, I went to inat and got the bird identified there (the 'other' one):

Then a mod emailed me and started the argument, in which he kept repeating that he could not rule out a lesser crested tern and so was witholding approval. This is despite 2 elegants being confirmed present in the area, and elegant being far more likely in the region due to a known colony in the Valencia area. Lesser crested is much, much scarcer here.

As this was ongoing, I made the mistake of asking him to approve of another sighting he was witholding approval on (lesser flamingo):
He looked at that, saw my Montagu's harrier photos, and accused me of trespassing inside the Montagu's harrier colony to get these photos, and chasing the birds around in there! He also demanded I remove my comments, despite the fact that ebird encourages such detailed reports in the field. I did this exact same thing last year without issue.

I have done nothing of what he claimed, and shortly before I reported him to the CLoO administration for that, I couldn't help but notice that his own photos from the same area are exponentially worse in quality. Could it be that he was just doing this out of spite?

The individual I mention I have repeatedly caught giving one or two-star reviews to photos I deem exceptional. The most offensive one I have observed is when he gave an exceptionally good, sharp, close photo of a pallid harrier a 1/5 for no real reason, forcing me to give it a 5/5 (Would have done so anyway):
https://ebird.org/checklist/S70913800
Upset, I asked about this individual on my local patch Facebook forum. Turns out, this person has been repeatedly accusing people of disturbing birds in the past and from what I understood was possibly reported for it at least once.

That's really the deal. I have posted the specific photo above to INat, would like to see what they think:
 
Last edited:
Well Gleb, you have built up a certain reputation for your attitude towards sensitive species and potential disturbance of them.

But you have now edited out everything this reply was about 🙄
 
Last edited:
Don't know why you didn't just walk right out onto the beach to get better and clinching photos of it? ...
Which photos are you referring to? If you mean the harrier photos, there is no way I would have done so because I would have disturbed the birds, and also would have stopped anyone from doing so.

Regarding the tern photos, getting closer would also be an issue given there was a fence there and the terns were on an artificial island separated by water. That is the closest I could possibly get to it, and it was viewed from the path. In addition, as I was leaving, someone got too close to it and caused the entire tern flock to take flight. There is no way I would have done that as well.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 1 year ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top