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'Ethical' binocular companies (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter John Cantelo
- Start date
I appreciate your point Pete, but we have moved quite a bit away from the said order of very many things in the last 100 years. Many of us don't live off the land and haven't done anything remotely close to that for generations. When Lincoln was president of U.S 90% of Americans were farmers. Now that number is a paltry 2%. US Life expectancy in 1900 was 47 and now it is 79. All plants and meat consumed now are farmed by corporations in all the wealthy nations. The same is starting to happen in all the developing nations. People with some conditions and ailments who would have surely died quite early can expect to live a longer life with the aid of modern medicine and health care. We have created our own "unnatural" order at the very top of the manufactured food chain and in that pursuit decimated many of the species that called Earth home. So, any claim that hunting is modern man's missing vital link in the evolutionary progress is at best a fallacy.
perterra
Well-known member
My point is that we are still the same species that we have been for 10's of thousands of years, and have the same brains, drives, ambitions, and basic thoughts. The same basic stuff makes us happy and sad. Thinking that we have "evolved" beyond certain behaviors is an incorrect use of that word.
I am not saying people have an innate need to hunt with a weapon. I don't know. But I do know that expecting the population at large to shift to an environment and way of life that was alien to our earlier ancestors AND remain happy doing so is a very ambitious goal, and in my opinion will not be generally successful. I know I for one, even though I grew up in a very large city, always feel a draw to be within forests or near nature. I don't feel happy otherwise. I draw excitement from the "hunt" for a bird (with my binoculars or camera). I did not find this same excitement writing emails at work and never felt at peace in a subway tunnel.
Ah yeah, that is good. I should have just said I agree with that stuff instead of posting my long tales
.The truth is, I never actually realized there was this divide between the groups - having never really known a birder until recently. (I only picked up the hobby this fall).
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Men in particular tend to like collecting things, whether it is stamps, vintage cars, binoculars or ticks against a list of bird species indicating which have been seen.
It is thought that this is a sublimated hunting instinct.
Lee
I used to debate this very point with my cousin.
He would assert that 'mankind is part of nature'.
I would reply that uniquely among species mankind has the imagination and foresight to predict the consequences of his species's actions and to control them to avoid long term damage to the environment and to species diversity, if he chooses to use his intelligence in this way.
At that point the discussion usually came to an end because the one thing we definitely agreed on was that as a species we are not brilliant at using our intelligence in that way.
Lee
perterra
Well-known member
A2GG
Beth
Sounds like me and Troubadoris when we are stalking Otters to watch them, or rare orchids to photograph them.
Lee
perterra
Well-known member
Ah yeah, that is good. I should have just said I agree with that stuff instead of posting my long tales
The truth is, I never actually realized there was this divide between the groups - having never really known a birder until recently. (I only picked up the hobby this fall).
In my neck of the woods you see a few hunters who are birders also, but you meet a lot of hunters who are strident conservationist. The Texas Master Nautralist Chapter I belong to works very closely with the Audubon society as well as Ducks Unlimited. One of the nicest wetland centers I have been to was started because of a hunter, a very wealthy hunter, but none the less a hunter, he did it because he wanted to give something back.
http://www.wetlandcenter.com/history.html
The Bunker Sands wetland center is on a working ranch, cattle and cowboys, the last lecture I went to there, the back of the room was taken up by 5 or 6 cowboys, felt hats or baseball cap's, jeans, boots and wearing spurs. They were ranch employees who heard what the lecture was going to be about and all took a break to sit thru the hour long lecture, they did it because they were interested in it, I would be willing to bet, most were hunters.
perterra
Well-known member
I think there is more in common between the groups than some are willing to admit.
I'm just glad it didnt say child abusers and bird watchers more likely to conserve.
A2GG
Beth
I have to disagree with the last statement in your first paragraph. Socially we have 'evolved' and 'evolve' just means change over time and can be used in a general sense. Certain social behavior and customs have changed dramatically. But, I get your general point that we are essentially the same in our base nature; eat, sleep, reproduce and repeat.
I got your point in your first post about being connected to nature and I didn't think you meant that people must hunt to feel connected to nature or be a part of it.
You're preaching to the choir in your last statements. I work in a cubicle all day which does nothing to enrich my life...its just a paycheck. Every member on BF knows what you're talking about.
On the other hand there are those people who prefer city life like my cousin who was born and raised in Philadelphia. As an adult he tried living outside in a more rural setting in PA and eventually went back to the city. He told me he was bored to tears and is a city-boy at heart which he cannot deny and so he had to return. I don't get it...I'm the opposite, but there are these other types of people.
A2GG
Beth
I'm just glad it didnt say child abusers and bird watchers more likely to conserve.
Obviously the writer left that out since it just goes without saying :-O
just teasing
A2GG
Beth
I read about the general history of Ornithology when I took the Cornell home study course in basic bird biology, but I wonder how many here are aware of the connections between hunting and birding.
For example:
https://www.audubon.org/conservation/history-christmas-bird-count
I think if the good ethical hunters and ethical birders (we do follow a code of ethics in NA as outlined by the ABA) listen to one another more we could get more done in the realm of conservation...and this has been happening more in the past several years where both communities are banding together for conservation efforts. We do have this interest in common and I know all of us are concerned about our future lands and wildlife. At this point, working together is crucial. A world of concrete and metal is a frightening thought.
For example:
https://www.audubon.org/conservation/history-christmas-bird-count
I think if the good ethical hunters and ethical birders (we do follow a code of ethics in NA as outlined by the ABA) listen to one another more we could get more done in the realm of conservation...and this has been happening more in the past several years where both communities are banding together for conservation efforts. We do have this interest in common and I know all of us are concerned about our future lands and wildlife. At this point, working together is crucial. A world of concrete and metal is a frightening thought.
perterra
Well-known member
I think some have an overwhelming urge for the hunt, but it's not just the hunt, it's the gathering. In talking to one of the guys I work with the other day he said he started out on the deer lease 25 years ago to bag a little venison, drink beer, eat and listen to the old men on the lease tell stories, now his son is a teenager on the same lease, all of the old men are in nursing homes are have passed on, and he finds he is the one telling the old man stories while his son, and others sons listen. I would imagine the sons will look up in 30 years and realize they are carrying the torch. Hunting can be a very solitary experience during the day, but in the cool of the evening around a snapping fire, with beer and whisky flowing, the stories come out, and you develop bonds for a people and a way of life. I suspect the social aspect of hunters around a fire after a long day has been going on since man first stood on two feet and grunted out a sentence.
I have seen it, like Pete said, we are not far removed from our ancestors in many ways.
I suspect many who find hunting atrocious would have a change of heart if they were forced to supply their own meals.
perterra
Well-known member
You should see if your area has a master naturalist chapter, it is very interesting and you will get a chance to spend a lot of time with pros in every aspect of conservation.
http://txmn.org/
.
perterra
Well-known member
I suspect it takes more than 3 months to become a biologist. :-O
Somewhat true, that. Master Naturalist programs are a good thing to do as well; I just recently taught one of the sections on wildlife management.
JE
