Ficedula flycat, today at Marrakesh, Morocco. (1 Viewer)

[Valéry Schollaert]

Hi all,

As far as I can see, this is a 2cy male Ficedula flycatcher. On this individual, I find some features matching 3 possible taxa :

• Ficedula hypoleuca iberiae
• Ficedula hypoleuca hypoleuca
• Ficedula speculigera

I'd like you have your analysis and conclusion if you have one. I didn't see these birds since a decade or more ! My last time in Morocco was in 2006... you help would you thus be much appreciated.

THANKS

Valéry

 

[Southern Viking]

Can't be Ficedula speculigera with that little white on forehead. The extent of white on the forehead and wing looks too little for Iberian to me too, so in as far as the photos go (i.e. nothing genetic), it looks like nominate Pied Ficedula hypoleuca

 

[Southern Viking]

I agree it's 2cy though, and can't find any specific resource to them in that plumage. Just can't see anything myself to suggest other than nominate. Would be interested to know your thoughts?

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Can't be Ficedula speculigera with that little white on forehead. The extent of white on the forehead and wing looks too little for Iberian to me too, so in as far as the photos go (i.e. nothing genetic), it looks like nominate Pied Ficedula hypoleuca

Can it have less white forehead because it is not adult ? I thought the white on the wings was wide for F. h. hypoleuca.

 

[Southern Viking]

Can it have less white forehead because it is not adult ?

This is what I was wondering, but for example, the first summer Collared Flycatcher in Yorkshire recently showed a large amount of white in the forehead:

Collared Flycatcher by Anthony Hull

I've seen Collared and Pied, but not Iberian or Atlas, so hopefully someone with experience of those taxa can comment (or at least someone who can find some resource/photos showing 1st summer birds).

 

[Muppit17]

From experience, Pied Fly's are one of the commonest migrants around Marrakech at this time of year. Atlas Fly is very scarce north of the Atlas, and whilst Iberian are also plentiful, I agree that this looks like a nominate.

I think the points have been listed. Small forehead patch, reduced primary base patch (missing here), however with white on outer tail feathers. (Iberian and Atlas should be all black)

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

From experience, Pied Fly's are one of the commonest migrants around Marrakech at this time of year. Atlas Fly is very scarce north of the Atlas, and whilst Iberian are also plentiful, I agree that this looks like a nominate.

I think the points have been listed. Small forehead patch, reduced primary base patch (missing here), however with white on outer tail feathers. (Iberian and Atlas should be all black)

As the bird appear to be a 2cy, juvenile outer tail feathers can show white, and I wonder if the forehead, typical in adult, can still be used. Very wide wing patch and grey rump were the reasons for which I immediately thought about iberiae or speculigera.

 

[Southern Viking]

As the bird appear to be a 2cy, juvenile outer tail feathers can show white, and I wonder if the forehead, typical in adult, can still be used. Very wide wing patch and grey rump were the reasons for which I immediately thought about iberiae or speculigera.

Possibly Iberian Pied Flycatcher still?

 

[Southern Viking]

That one was a nominate Pied on DNA

 

[Muppit17]

As the bird appear to be a 2cy, juvenile outer tail feathers can show white, and I wonder if the forehead, typical in adult, can still be used. Very wide wing patch and grey rump were the reasons for which I immediately thought about iberiae or speculigera.

I agree -from trips in Marrakech I ended up with hundreds of photos in Apr 22 to add to many more in earlier autumns and came to no clear view. Every combination seems possible. Forehead patch variable, wing markings variable, and tail pattern variable. The only other thing I can offer is that as birds are normally 'fast north' in spring to ensure they are on territory before their competitors. From my observatons, it appears that early migrants of Pied are predominantly of iberiae, later they seem to be mixed and last are nominate. This appears to correlate with the timing of their breeding territories being 'ready'. Speculigera really should all be on territory now.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

I agree -from trips in Marrakech I ended up with hundreds of photos in Apr 22 to add to many more in earlier autumns and came to no clear view. Every combination seems possible. Forehead patch variable, wing markings variable, and tail pattern variable. The only other thing I can offer is that as birds are normally 'fast north' in spring to ensure they are on territory before their competitors. From my observatons, it appears that early migrants of Pied are predominantly of iberiae, later they seem to be mixed and last are nominate. This appears to correlate with the timing of their breeding territories being 'ready'. Speculigera really should all be on territory now.

"Speculigera really should all be on territory now."

I've guided dozen of trips in Morocco since 1991, and I used to look for speculigera much before it was split. We found adult males (I considered immatures and females unidentifiable with the current knowledge in the past) in oasis south of the High Atlas, systematically, up to mid-may (even around the 20th). We sometimes missed it in April, but never in May. We are now in the heart of the migration. Moreover, we are now seeing a lot of migrants, including Spotted and Med Flycatchers, warblers and many more, but this was the only Ficedula seen since 1st of May. Certainly worth a second look.

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Regarding tail pattern, both 2CY male speculigera and iberiae can exhibit white in the tail (see links below) i.e retained juvenile feathers. Compare 2CY Atlas Pied https://ebird.org/checklist/S65092918

The reduced and 'divided' white forehead patch, extent and shape of white mid wing panel + apparent absence of visible white bar to primary bases suggest 2CY European Pied while nothing to suggest otherwise IMHO.

Essential reading Valery.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...cher_variability_of_identification_characters
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ication_of_Atlas_Flycatcher_in_summer_plumage

Grahame

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Regarding tail pattern, both 2CY male speculigera and iberiae can exhibit white in the tail (see links below) i.e retained juvenile feathers. Compare 2CY Atlas Pied https://ebird.org/checklist/S65092918

The reduced and 'divided' white forehead patch, extent and shape of white mid wing panel + apparent absence of visible white bar to primary bases suggest 2CY European Pied while nothing to suggest otherwise IMHO.

Essential reading Valery.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...cher_variability_of_identification_characters
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ication_of_Atlas_Flycatcher_in_summer_plumage

Grahame

Thank you Graham, I've red these articles before posting. You wrote "extent and shape of white mid wing panel" is matching Pied, but comparing to online photos of Atlas and my experience of the two, I think the opposite. The forehead is the problem for Atlas indeed, the only one, otherwise I wouldn't even ask for confirmation. Primary bases should have some white in all species and the absence is certainly due to very worn juvenile primaries more than anything else.

The jizz was also perfect for Atlas, and the semi-collared feeling regarding the neck pattern, although not 100% reliable, is often a first sign of Atlas. I understand I will not manage to ID it now as an Atlas, but I keep it sp for now, untill our knowledge of Atlas improve. I've seen millions of Pied Flycat., and, although I'm not an expert in Ficedula, my gut feeling is rejecting it.