Gull ID, UK (1 Viewer)

[Lissagriffin]

A couple of large imm. gulls at Fairlop Water a few days ago set me wondering about their ID. I've never been able to get fully to grips with the complex interplay of age, structure, plumage and moult of what were once for me all Herring Gulls. I'd appreciate any pointers. Photos 2 and 3 are the same bird, which had a very heavy bill but was Herring Gull size.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello Lissa,

both birds are 2 cy=1 cycle birds. Please note as a rough guide for this age-class:

• broad, complete tail band (whishful thinking in the first)
• barred/patterned (dark and brown) wingcoverts
• nearly complete blackish bill
• lack of any adult-type pure grey feathers on the back

I hope this quick summary is helpful why I would age these birds as 2 cy Gulls

End of confident part


First bird is either a dark Herring or a Lesser black backed Gull (or an hybrid between those two?)

• Common Gull-like jizz with a long-winged, slender body feeling might favour a LBBG
• small, neatly rounded head and a slender bill might favour a LBBG, too

But:

• scapulars are extensive grey
• tertials are brown, not blackish-brown (but they are worn and bleached by february, as they are several month old now)
• I can guess abraded irregaluar pale edging, better for a HG
• I am unsure about the pattern of the greater coverts, help please!

Conclusion? I have learned from Lou in another thread, that a Herring x Lesser black backed Gull hybrid might well be considered in the UK (thanks). And I think, it might well be one. Do you have more pictures, including flight shots?


Second bird:
only looking at the flight shot, I might well get the impression of an Yellow legged Gull by

• narrow tail-band, that seems to show a strong contrast to the whitish base. But on a closer llook I can see (with whisful thinking) some baj
• weak pale inner primary window

But the standing bird looks good for a Herring Gull by

• broad white tips to the tertials and I guess abraded irregaluar pale edging, too
• strongly and regular barred scapulars, no diamond shaped dark center or at least a T-pattern like here: Gull Research Organisation

Conclusion? I think its a Herring Gull

Real conclusion? I hope for confirmation or correction.

 

[lou salomon]

1. 1st cycle Herring Gull
2. a bit difficult as on first sight head and bill look more like HG, but on the sum of features I'd say probably a Yellow-legged Gull: weak window (pale inner primaries), fairly contrasting black tail band with apparently little dark markings to bases of tail feathers and one or two replaced inner greater coverts which is rather rare in Herring Gull.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello Lou,
thanks for the detailed correction!

I just realized, that my comment is missing a part of the sentence (reason?). It should read:
But on a closer look I can see (with whishful thinking) some bajonett-shaped extensions/smearing from the tail-band towards the tail-base.