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gulls (1 Viewer)

Hi Lou.
Regarding the Danish Gull, cachinnans or michahellis, not so straight forward in my opinion. Taken early in the season and rather fresh juvenile - explained by the dark head, which is quite ordinary in juveniles. Not the so called typical cachinnans jizz maybe, especially head shape, bill alright for a male type though. Tertials not seen from above - which would have been a good thing. The photographer - who seem to know his gulls, simply answer the question above that it is a normal cachinnans. The above comment question the gull and propose michahellis due to heavy bill, with obvious 'hook', dark eye-mask, patttern on the scapulars, darkish overall, jizz and head shape, fair questions the photographer chose to ignore!

I agree with the photographer, but realise that it´s still not always that easy to determine between certain michahellis and cachinnans, and I´m not sure if there are detailes in the feather groups that will settle arguments, du to variation and sometimes perhaps hybridization.

Check fresh cachinnans here:

http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/11_Rantalinnut/11h_Lokit/index_content.html

Same date as the Danish:

http://www.helsinki.fi/~rauste/g/data/pics/C_IMG_43177.jpg

http://www.helsinki.fi/~rauste/g/data/pics/C_IMG_41765.jpg

JanJ
 
The gull I posted was from last weekend on South Uist - was just taking potshots at the gulls going by whilst waiting for a Bonaparte's to show. I assumed it was a herring pretending to look a bit cachinnans.

Lou I'll got and scratch my head over the rest of those gulls - any clues!?

A
 
AStevenson said:
The gull I posted was from last weekend on South Uist - was just taking potshots at the gulls going by whilst waiting for a Bonaparte's to show. I assumed it was a herring pretending to look a bit cachinnans.

Lou I'll got and scratch my head over the rest of those gulls - any clues!?

A
Click to expand...

andrew, mostly that gull's "face" made me think cachinnans, the solid dark tail is problematic though and wings prob. too short. but "at least" jan was wrong with it being an early autumn photo - remains to explain the shorter p10! and that makes the primaries second generation, with quite a large mirror for argentatus.

hints for the heads: there's one american taxon in it, you got right no.4 and 5; no.3 was the half point (argentatus or michahellis), 2 is quite distinct on shape and colour of bill, 6 is not michahellis (you fell into the trap o:) ) 7 is a september ad cachinnans with very pale eyes and 8 is a sp. that usually has a bit lighter iris, but very variable - usually medium peppered and some dark featherings around the eye in winter.
now, what are no. 1, 2, 3, 6 and 8?
 
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The idea for Andrews gull was a 4cy, with a less developed bill colour, variable of course.

http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/75092420

Regarding possible mirror on p10 and age in Herring Gull, 2nd winters (2cy-3cy type) usually don´t have one, but some do! Even some late 3cy which have finished their primary moult - and then consequently as 4cy - can lack mirror on p10 but usualy there is a mirror, variable in size.

http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/75092420

Note the tail pattern on this 3cy type from Ireland:

http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/93419565

This 3-4cy type michahellis lacks a mirror:

http://www.pbase.com/dophoto/image/91122136

http://www.pbase.com/dophoto/image/91122137

JanJ
 
ah, ok. my female better half translated for me the comments. i see it as quite a normal 2cy kaspisk trut (primariy tips not so rounded and plumage doesn't fit a 3cy caspian), even smudging on belly looks absolutely in line. why did the hybrid discussion came up? one of the things that could worry is the (not so well visible) broad tail band, not mentioned in the comments.
 
OK Lou , I'll go for further embarassment!! It's worse with clues......

1. I'm really struggling with this one if it isn't micha, is it just a herring??
2. Still not sure about this one either, imm Armenian??
3. I'll fail by deciding herring over micha
6. Hmmmm, it's either a scruffy herring or a western gull
8. Really odd bill on it - still gives a cachi or Californian gull feel, but what you said about the iris ain't right - oh I give up!

A
 
hi andrew,

no embaressement at all needed.

1. looks indeed identic to argentatus - but is a smith herring gull.
2. yesss! look at that stubby bill and extended black on it.
3. selffulfilling prophecy - it is a micha!
6. nope, it is a male cachinnans photographed in the danube delta:

well, if you still like:
8. has slaty upperparts colour.
 
Hi Lou,

Oh dear......1. is really a smiths??? I've never seen one that looks like that, but hey it's LWHG. 6. crikey that looks a pretty hefty bill on it, maybe it's just the angle and scruffy feathering that's doing it.

You're gonna tell me 8. is heuglini, barabensis or plain old LBB next.

Shame most of my gull pics are on slides or I'd get my own back!!

Cheers,
A
 
AStevenson said:
Hi Lou,

Oh dear......1. is really a smiths??? I've never seen one that looks like that, but hey it's LWHG. 6. crikey that looks a pretty hefty bill on it, maybe it's just the angle and scruffy feathering that's doing it.

You're gonna tell me 8. is heuglini, barabensis or plain old LBB next.

Shame most of my gull pics are on slides or I'd get my own back!!

Cheers,
A
Click to expand...


salute,

it's a smith : http://www.pbase.com/paleojack/image/72786860

6 is this one:
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=152601

also a male, same location same time:
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=149017

of course i intentionally choose a photo where the head profile looks square and the bill shows its nice gonydeal. ,)
- see, that the first one looks like having pinkish legs (many have pale yellow, but this is end of breeding season; the other one looks grey-colourless; i don't know if it had a nest at that moment but there should be some nests in the vast outer danube delta. sfantu gheorghe village, 30.05.07.

8 is a heuglini by d.ochiato, also from daniele is the 4-5cy type michahellis in pic 4:

http://www.pbase.com/dophoto/image/89680029

http://www.pbase.com/dophoto/image/37157076

the armenicus as well:
http://www.pbase.com/dophoto/image/77409244


pics 3 and 5 (mich and graellsii/intermedius) i have stolen from st. aubry: http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/67275980

http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/66021865

excuse moi!
 
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i just failed on this pic on the bavarianbirds-quiz :-O :-O :-O

and it is not the same species as in the 3 b/w pics o:) , a bird which appeared surprisingly in a park in stuttgart some weeks ago.
 

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ok, the blurry b/w pics show a female nominate argentatus that rested and got fed in our park, a rare sight here inland. primaries were quite worn. but what is the bird from bavarianbirds?
 
Some gulls from Oakland. There is much more variation in that part of California than in San Diego where gull identification is more straight forward.
 

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hi gentoo

1. is that a western with slight hybrid influence in the first pic? the one with open wings, the one on the right looks hefty enough to be one of this sp. pair, pass on the others, plus an am. coot and a scaup(?) - that's lake merrit isn't it?

2. 2nd cycle california?

3 no idea at first

4 that would be a west coast herring? i'm not sure i've definitely seen one.
 
lou salomon said:
hi gentoo

1. is that a western with slight hybrid influence in the first pic? the one with open wings, the one on the right looks hefty enough to be one of this sp. pair, pass on the others, plus an am. coot and a scaup(?) - that's lake merrit isn't it?

2. 2nd cycle california?

3 no idea at first

4 that would be a west coast herring? i'm not sure i've definitely seen one.
Click to expand...
Yes it is Lake Merritt. Can't mistake it once you've been there.

1. You are right. Although I think this bird may be the mystery gull I posted in the normal ID forum a little while back. The others are mainly Glaucous-Winged, some with Herring and Western influence in them.

2. nope, not California, bigger than that.

3. Even I'm not 100% certain but I have a pretty good idea.

4. Yes typical west coast Herring Gull, unlike the ones we get here in San Diego which I believe are from somewhere else.
 
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